Author Topic: P-38 Driving questions...  (Read 3489 times)

Offline OIO

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P-38 Driving questions...
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2003, 01:26:43 PM »
"What gets me is the yak-9u's, 109g2/g10, the la-5/7s, p51's and f4u's."

Of all those, only the La5 and the Yak should give you any trouble, as they are the closest match for a P-38.

Kweassa put a lot of info there, here's my .2 cents (shortened since Kweassa put most of the info up there already :) ):

Your first and foremost thing to do in the P38 is to know your plane's advantages and disadvantages vs your opponent's weaknesses and advantages.

Yak9U: Cons: Poor acceleration (compared to P38), very short range guns (aka, dangerous only under d400). Pro's: Yak will match P38 in low speed handling (under 150mph) and in High speed handling. Very small target.

To defeat the Yak, if you on the attacker role, fly the 38 as if it was a P-51. That is, come at him fast, do 1 pass, and extend, return if you need to. But always stay fast and dont let the bugger inside d500 of you. If the Yak is on the attacker role, your best chance is to get him on the deck and below 150 mph (sciscor, etc, just get him on the deck and slow him down). Once on the deck the 38's much superior acceleration will allow you to run away from it, yaks usually spray their ammo as you do this.

109g2: Cons: slightly worse turn rate, very poor low speed handling. Pros: Better dive rate, little better climb rate, very nice afterburner WEP.

The 109G2 is rather easy to beat, just do lazy lag persuit and dont follow it on dives. Once it begins to turn (109g2's love to try and do the yo-yo dance), keep taking potshots with the 50's, you will score a crippling hit easy enough.

109G10 cons: very poor turn rate and low speed handling. Cons: Monstrous climb rate and acceleration, very nasty guns.

109G10s do one thing: They climb and try to rope you or hammerhead you. Ironically, this 109 is the easiest to beat since it is the most predictable. If it noses up to climb, you just nose up at half his climb, keep your speed at 250 always, no matter if the 109 is pulling up up up and away. The g10's always climb until they see you like at d800 then they turn and do a dive attack on you. If you kept your speed at 250, the P-38 will have enough speed to do a half-turn to evade the bounce and then take potshots at the 109g10 as it dives. The 109 usually has only 150mph when it dives past you, so your 250mph and your 1.2k .50's should allow you to score a few shots . Dont EVER follow the g10 on the dive, always let him dive away.

La5 : cons: poor acceleration, crappy short range guns. Pros: Very manouverable, small, good dive rate.

La5s can be beat in the vertical. Dont ever get into a turn or E-fight with the things, they will eat you.

La7: cons: Poor turn rate, horrible low speed handling, short range guns. Pro: Monstrous acceleration, high top speed, great climb rate under 20k.

If you see an La7, DROOL. Sciscors will kill these things so easy its just not funny.

P-51: Cons: Bad acceleration, poor climb rate. Pros: Excellent dive and high speed handling, excellent E retention.

P51's are will seriously test your SA. There are only 2 rules vs these things: If under 25k, you better get them turning or hope they do something stupid..like turn with you or loop you. If over 25k, the P51 is only a danger on the first one or 2 passes it makes at you, after that it wont be able to climb to do its high speed passes, then its left with 2 options: Turn or dive and run. If they dive and run YOU WIN!  If they turn, then the P-38's fowler flaps turn the thing into a virtual Zero up that high, eat his arse.

So far the best all-around tactic ive found vs the P51 is to force HO's. Remember, his only tactic vs you is to dive at high speed and hit you and run away. If you deny his attack by turning to HO him, the pony driver is neutralized unless he wants to try his luck. Most do and die to your 1.4k .50 cals that dont suffer from dispersion. *hint*

F4U's:
Cons: Very poor low speed handling, poor climb rate, very poor acceleration. Pro: slightly better dive rate, good turn rate.

F4U's are easy to beat. Just sciscor or go vertical with them. Word of caution, dont vertical a C-Hog, those maggots just need 1 ping to git ya. And always remember, your superior acceleration means that if you get it low and slow, he's at your mercy.

Offline WldThing

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P-38 Driving questions...
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2003, 03:09:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by OIO
[BSo far the best all-around tactic ive found vs the P51 is to force HO's. Remember, his only tactic vs you is to dive at high speed and hit you and run away. If you deny his attack by turning to HO him, the pony driver is neutralized unless he wants to try his luck. Most do and die to your 1.4k .50 cals that dont suffer from dispersion. *hint*[/B]


If im flying a P-51, and have to HO another con, best way to do it is to HO while coming down on the con.  It is very hard for him to shoot up, and alot easier for me to shoot down.

Offline Soda

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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2003, 04:41:57 PM »
Kwessa has the right idea, the only thing to add is to make sure you keep your P-38 fairly light.  Too many people take bombs/rockets and forget they are there (since they were maybe last using the P-38 for jabo work).  Also, lighten up on fuel, the P-38 has some 38 minutes worth on internal, so take half that and a drop tank and you should have tonnes of range.  Remember the P-38 has two engines you are feeding, so packing 38 minutes worth of fuel is a whole lot of weight.

Finally, I tend not to take the heavy ammo load.  I typically find it's time to leave the fight before I have had a chance to burn up all my ammo if I take the heavy load.  I think the P-38 handles a bit better when light on ammo, maybe it's the fact that it's stored all in the nose or something.

-Soda
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The Assassins.

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2003, 05:45:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Soda
 Also, lighten up on fuel, the P-38 has some 38 minutes worth on internal, so take half that and a drop tank and you should have tonnes of range.  Remember the P-38 has two engines you are feeding, so packing 38 minutes worth of fuel is a whole lot of weight.

Finally, I tend not to take the heavy ammo load.  I typically find it's time to leave the fight before I have had a chance to burn up all my ammo if I take the heavy load.  I think the P-38 handles a bit better when light on ammo, maybe it's the fact that it's stored all in the nose or something.

-Soda
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The Assassins.



75% fuel and 1 DT (if you plan extended flights) is a good fuel load out for the P-38 without sacrificing maneuverability.  The only times I bring less fuel than that is if the base or target I'm attacking is within the same sector as the base I took off from.  As for the ammo load, you can never have too much ammo.  I never take the light ammo load and the times that I have taken the light ammo load, the gains you get with the lighter load is almost negligible.



Ack-Ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
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Offline cobia38

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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2003, 11:45:03 PM »
The easyest way to kill a pony is to get them in a climbing
    spirel,then when they point ther nose down to regain energy bounce um :D


  Harvesting taters,one  K4 at a time

Offline gofaster

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P-38 Driving questions...
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2003, 08:19:32 AM »
My biggest complaint about the P-38:

How come, when I stall the P-38, it always falls off to the left?  I thought the contra-rotating propellers solved the torque twist problem?  This makes it very tough to do low-speed turn fights.

Offline OIO

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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2003, 08:39:16 AM »
it doesnt gofaster. It all depends on the angle your plane is banked.

The only issues the current 38 model has is the dive flaps not working properly and the fowlers auto-retracting. And the lack of earlier models ;) ;)

wldthng:

If your P51 decides to shoot down on the 38 in a HO situation, you will be in an extreme disadvantage vs. the 38 until you get inside d600 range. Convergence! The P38's 4X.50s and 20mm will hit you way out to d1.2 while your .50's dont have much chance to ping the 38 at those ranges. Then theres the fact that you have 1 engine and the 38 has 2, even if the 51 and 38 ping each other silly, the 38 has the most chances of making it home.

Cobia:

That works great if the pony is low on E.. but then if thats the case you already have his arse served. That tactic works GREAT against the 190s (except d9). :)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2003, 09:14:43 AM by OIO »

Offline BOOT

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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2003, 12:19:50 PM »
Fabulous Thread Gents...

Thanks for all the input...

Offline OIO

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P-38 Driving questions...
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2003, 01:56:28 PM »
Just remember: some pilots are good, few are great; but the very best flew the P-38! :D

Offline Murdr

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P-38 Driving questions...
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2003, 12:24:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
  As for the ammo load, you can never have too much ammo.  I never take the light ammo load and the times that I have taken the light ammo load, the gains you get with the lighter load is almost negligible.



Ack-Ack [/B]


I agree, the weight loss on ammo isnt enough to make a slight performance increase worth while.  I often have 50%-75% fuel on board, and 1 or 2 drop tanks.  It is preferable not to get into serious fighting in a 38 with more than 50% imo, it cuts the instantainous turn rate too much.

Hi Zombe, didnt know you were flying again =)
Back to wt's comment, if you are under the merge and both of you immel, because you are starting your turn lower your radius point is at a lower alt than your enemies.  Which means you can take a biger radius to top out near the same point as the nme, less turn, more E retention.  Or if you would pull the exact turn rate as your nme you would top out inside their turn.  Or as wt suggests you could burn E and pull very tight inside their turn.  Its a classic merge technique.  When I would duel w/vmpr or fedex we would often dive into the merge from 5k and sometimes merge at 20ft trying to get under each others merge.  Also besides going directly under you can often make a HO even harder by pointing a few degrees left or right, then re-orienting on the nme in the last few seconds before the merge.  With practice you can actually end up pulling your immel several degrees offset to theirs.  The advantage to that is that lesser experience pilots will look up_back or up and not see you, and be confused long enough to die quietly =).  If your doing it right you should rarely ever take a hit at the merge

Offline Soda

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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2003, 03:55:44 PM »
I mean, this is all personal preference, but I find the lighter I can fight my P-38 the better.  Interal fuel volume/weight is huge in the P-38, some 410 gallons at full load.  Knocking that down to half and adding a drop tank is very helpful.  50% and droptank if I'm close, never more than 75% and 1-2 droptanks if I'm going a distance.  Only for extreme cruising to I load more than that.

As for the ammo load, I really wish there were something between the 200 and 500 rounds/gun load.  The hispano has a firing time of ~14 seconds and at 200 rounds/gun the .50's give 15 seconds.  I found this a nice match because I tend to get close and fire everything (hispanos/50's have similar ballistics).  If I bulked up to the 500 rounds/gun, you have some 38 seconds of firing time, which is a tonne, but less than half can include hispano.  Also, the weight is significant, on the order of 350 pounds difference since the light load is so small yet the heavy ammo load is so HUGE.  It really does seem that it's 350 pounds hanging out on the nose too which seems to hurt a bit more.

Personal taste though, experiment.  I wish there were the option to load something more in the order of 300-350 rounds for the .50's though.  That would give a little extra for "ranging".

Can't claim the P-38 as my main ride though.   I've been spending quite a bit of time in the cockpit of it lately though, what a nice bird.

-Soda
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The Assassins.

Offline WldThing

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P-38 Driving questions...
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2003, 07:05:43 PM »
I dont know if its just me or what but when im flying any kind of plane i dont see a difference between 100% or 25% fuel, or 3000 rounds of ammo or 1000..

Have no idea why i dont "feel" light if im actually carrying a lighter amount.

Offline Soda

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« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2003, 07:29:31 PM »
In most planes I don't notice either, but I can tell in the P-38 and in the P-47.  In the P-38 it's such a large difference in load, more than double, and the positioning is a little far forward.  Might just be me though... but I find that it feels "lighter" and slightly more stable with less ammo up front.

-Soda
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The Assassins.

Offline OIO

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P-38 Driving questions...
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2003, 08:55:12 PM »
soda, fly without Combat trim and keep the trim tab on or below the "L" of "elev" .

Even if it means you having to put a slightly upward pull on the stick when going at lower speeds, the P38 is super stable and it wont have a bouncy nose during combat or manouvers.

The ammo load makes no real difference imo. Even if it did, i'd still take the full ammo load and just be trigger happy until the 50 cal ammo goes down to "light ammo load" level ;)

Offline Soda

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« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2003, 12:22:15 AM »
I never fly with combat trim... always manual trim.

I guess it's a difference in opinion, I tend to think I can feel the heavier ammo on the P-38 in performance.  It's nothing major, just a little, but I tend to find the light load more than enough for a half dozen kills if I set up decent shots.  I tend to be fairly tight on ammo use though so quantity is not usually an issue.  Nothing in the game is as easy to aim as the P-38.

-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.