190 Doras

[Kieren]

Soda-

You forgot the third category of perk,

C) Some people want to perk a/c because they are popular, not because they possess any overwhelming advantages over any other type. This is why I say that eventually everything gets perked.

[Animal]

Perks:

A-234
Bf109 G10 (cheap)
F4U-C (cheap)
P-51D (cheap)
LA7 (cheap)
N1k2
TA152 (cheap)
Dora (cheap)
Spitfire 14
Typhoon (cheap)

Leave the rest unperked.
That would work fine for me.
Those I labeled cheap would be perkes but should only take 2 or 3 normal sorties to gather enouh points to buy them.

[Kieren]

"Aye! But there's the rub!"

What is "normal" for 2 or 3 sorties? I maybe get a point or two for a sortie, no kidding. I guess I could tank up a plane with a huge ammo load and start hauling butt to the training centers, but I really have no interest in doing so.

It does leave me pondering (if uselessly) about the many ways this might happen.

[list=1]

• All rides perked. You will have to have a minimum amount of points awarded for taking off- if not it is conceivable that a person could wind up with 0 points and no possibility of getting them.
• Leave the plan as announced. The problem there is it basically guarantees a large percentage of the user base will never use some of the perk planes in the MA. This can be a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view.
• You could allow automatic regeneration of points over time logged in. This means that, as long as you survive, your points build when you are online. Death incurs a penalty, but you would always have enough points to get into the air with something. This will also give the endless runway spawner something to think about when they fight the good fight. Of course this could very seriously hurt the furball crowd (in which I include myself at the present time) but OTOH it might be structured in a workable way IF points build at the right rate. Most planes would be relatively inexpensive, but the uberplanes would be pretty far out there point-wise and require a drastic hit on points to fly them.[/list=a]

[Soda]

Kieren,
  What example is there of something popular, not unbalancing, that is overflown and people complain about it?  N1K and C-Hog can't be used, since enough people will claim them as unbalancing.

-Soda

[Kieren]

Think beyond the first step, Soda. What happens next is that there will be perceived another "this is the best plane to survive and kill in" plane. The point is, when you compare there will always be an upper and lower limit. People in an unstructured environment generally grab the upper end when possible, thus your next "uberplanes" would most likely become the P-51 and 109G-10. After that, what next? See what I mean?

The MA is not an environment in which you can force people to voluntarily distribute themselves equally amongst the plane types. There is always going to be a #1 used plane, bet on it.

[J_A_B]

I agree

After the F4U-1C and N1K get perked, some other plane will become the most popular...

My guess is either the P-51, Or the Spit 9.  After THOSE are perked?   109G-10, etc etc

The point is....it HAS to stop somewhere, otherwise everything will end up being perked.  That is the flaw to basing a perk system solely on popularity.

J_A_B

[Fishu]

109G10 and P51 doesnt suit everyone though.
People will also split to spitfires and yaks.

109 has low ammo and not easy to fly, p51 is easier to fly, but it isnt too agile either and accerlates slow
many likes to be able to turn as well or just fly easier planes.
Probably tiffie gets more popular as well - next from chog, though, with less ammo.

I wouldnt go speculate for any radical changes yet, I would leave those speculations until tried & proven.

[Spatula]

So if we perk the Dora, and the argument goes then we should perk the niki, and then the Chog, and the P51-D and then the 109-G10, what's left to fly? Not much really.
I think if we perk the aforementioned planes (and i seriously doubt they ever will be), then we need more earlier was AC, variants etc.

More than happy to have the P51-D perked if we get a correctly modelled Mustang Mk III with the malcom hood. And its still a better AC than a Dora  

[Soda]

Kieren, J_A_B,
  Not to disagree but the only perk talk is the C-hog and N1K, and that's not even official.  There will always be a popular ride, and that often tends to shift as good pilots make records of kills in them.  There are a dozen or more pilots in AH that could rack up 8:1 kill ratios in the C202 using strong ACM.

  It's just that, we are already faced with the perk system and it actually has two ways to work on a player to not always fly the most powerful or popular ride.  It can penalize you by not earning perk points so you can't fly the real uber-rides, or it can make you pay some hard earned points to mount up that ride.  Seems fair to me.

Look at the effect in the MA right now, lots of other planes flying around lately, seeing many 109's (*not G10's), P38's, La5, SpitII, SpitV, D-hogs.  I have as many kills of D-Hogs as C-Hogs this tour so far.  It's working already.

HTC has two ways to limit plane popularity, a subtle one and a drastic one.  The subtle one appears to be working, just give fewer perk points for kills in a really popular ride.  It doesn't mean that people won't just freely pick up a C-hog and blast around the sky.  It just means that same guy better be getting some good kill numbers in order to also be able to take a Tempest out for a spin from time to time.  In the drastic case of something really uber coming along then you actually make it cost points to fly one.  That's a more drastic step but would probably be deserving in the case of something that could rule the MA with impunity.

I think that allows someone who wants to fly a preferred ride to continue to do so.  It also gives someone who wants to fly something seriously outclassed a reward to throwing caution to the wind to get some hard won kills.

I can't wait till 1.06 comes out and the first person yells "Hey, I have as many kills as <insert player name> player, why can he fly a <insert plane> here and I can't!!!!"

-Soda

[Kieren]

Won't be me, Soda. My only concern about perking any plane is that it should never be done only because a plane is popular. That is a dead end. Other than that perks be perks be perks, and has little to do with me.

[Soda]

I've certainly changed rides lately too, and found it quite a blast to fight in something you know has a weakness.  You tend to set up and pick your fights better.  I think overall it teachs you to be a better pilot also.

The perk system allows so much flexibilty, part of which is only starting to show.  You can affect the usage of a plane in AH now only by adding or subtracting 5 perk point earning values to it.  Not cost perk points, I'm talking earning ability perk values.  I think it has already had the desired effect.  The new planes will probably get treated either cautiously (initially not perked) or agressively (over perked) and then find their respective positions in time.

Having the variety of planes we have already, and knowing that it will only increase, something had to be done to stop the P-51's from slaughtering Brewster Buffalo's all day long(I forgot who wanted the buffalo... geez, now that's a challenge to complete with in the MA I bet.  Like bringing a pointed stick to a gun fight   ).

-Soda

[juzz]

 

Originally posted by funked:
La-7 is most definitely a perk.  It performs like a Bearcat.  If the Bearcat is not perk material, why bother with the perk system?

Ahh, but that was "prototype" data. Going on precedent, the La-7 performance in AH will be based on "production" a/c(like the one with faulty slats) - only 370mph at s/l, and 408mph at 20k.  

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:
Think beyond the first step, Soda. What happens next is that there will be perceived another "this is the best plane to survive and kill in" plane. The point is, when you compare there will always be an upper and lower limit. People in an unstructured environment generally grab the upper end when possible, thus your next "uberplanes" would most likely become the P-51 and 109G-10. After that, what next? See what I mean?

The MA is not an environment in which you can force people to voluntarily distribute themselves equally amongst the plane types. There is always going to be a #1 used plane, bet on it.

All these "and when they came for my MC202 there was no one to help me" type arguments are rather silly. Look at the masses of planes that right now are > 15 perk and < 30 perk. You know why. Because there is alot less to chose between them. They have different ballencing stengths and weaknesses compared to some of the pricier planes. Your assumptions that all the flyers on ride number one will switch to the next percieved uber ride assumes that there is some other ride so clearly better. Thats either wrong or a huge assumption to bet on for such a strong opinion.
I dont necessarily agree that the Nik and 1C should be perked any more. The perk system has alleiviated(it seems) alot of the problem that was occuring. But if a perk plane is introduced that is not signifigantly better then both, and they are not perked. It will undermine the system. That all remains to be seen with the new planes .

[Twist]

Perk Osti's  

[Kieren]

Pongo-

Either you aren't reading me right or I am not understanding you; my main argument is against the people in favor of perking the F4U-1C and N1K2-J based on the number of kills they acquire in the MA. My belief is that people will simply move on to the next "perceived best" available plane in the set. There doesn't have to be a real performance difference, you see, it only needs to appear to be real (as in the case of the 1C). The effect will be the same; you are going to see one type of plane more than any others for one reason or another. Following the strict "it's too popular so let's perk it" formula then means the plane must be perked.

I may not be able to call it fact, but I can tell you it is the experience I have had in all the flight sims I ever flew in.