Thank Clinton for a speedy victory in Iraq

[anonymous]

Originally posted by midnight Target
I hope you guys didn't hurt him too bad.

nah when i found out he was the guy who "broke you in" i decided to take it easy on him. call me sentimental.

[GRUNHERZ]

LOL Earlkonig whats with the mental breakdown today?

[midnight Target]

contrast this to what happened after the 9/11 attacks. general attitude was "get guys on the ground in afghanistan and get them hunting and worry about the details when you have time". the call was going out to special operations units "pick guys who want to fight

This is absolutely true, but the sad thing is that people commend the current administration for this attitude, when GWB had nothing to do with it. Each administration does what it can politically do, no more no less. If Clinton had been in office during 9-11 he would have had the mandate to do what GWB has done.

Enough with the pissing match, mines bigger.

[GRUNHERZ]

But why didnt Clinton do anything substantial after the cole attack - that was a clear attempt to destroy a US military vessel and kill hundreds of americans and why nothing substantial after the africa bombings - certainly there was much more freedom to act as there was no more cold war concerns with the old Soviet Union for the USA to worry about...

[midnight Target]

Because the public was not behind it like after 9-11 Grun. Really very simple.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Because the public was not behind it like after 9-11 Grun. Really very simple.

As for that, I doubt it would have been the same MT I think if clinton was pres on 911 things would have moved much more slowly, I think it would have taken into the next year for the war to start while clinton figured out the politically safe way to go about it ratrher than just do it and be done with the taliban in a few weeks like bush started less than one month after 911. The taliban govt was gone by mid november.

[Montezuma]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But why didnt Clinton do anything substantial after the cole attack - that was a clear attempt to destroy a US military vessel and kill hundreds of americans and why nothing substantial after the africa bombings - certainly there was much more freedom to act as there was no more cold war concerns with the old Soviet Union for the USA to worry about...

Republicans were more worried about BJs. 'Wag the dog' they cried when Clinton hit Al-Queda with cruise missiles.  They also viewed foreign intervention as bad, remember 'we do not wish to engage in nation building'?

The idea that somehow Democrats are reluctant to use military power to defend US interests might make sense to someone who missed the 20th century.

[midnight Target]

Nah!

The Taliban would have been toast in 2 months no matter who was in charge. You remember the sentiment at the time... hell we were all wondering what was taking so long!

You may have a point regarding Iraq though. Clinton probably wouldn't have been as decisive about Saddam.

[GrimCO]

I guess I'm the only person who has voted Democrat in the past and still has a dislike for overly liberal tree huggers.

Guess that's why I got fed up and didn't vote for Clinton when he was running for President. I saw way too many young people voting for him just because he played the saxiphone on Arsenio Hall and thought he was "cool".  Although his campaign manager was brilliant for pulling that stunt, I foresaw Clinton as a used car salesman. He did a few good things while in office, but overall he was a disgrace. There was no way in hell I was going to vote for a draft dodger Democrat or not.

Although I don't agree with everything GWB does, I honestly can't imagine what would have happened if Bill Clinton were in office when 9/11 happened. He just didn't have the cajones required of a President.

[anonymous]

i thought it was friendly banter not a pissing match. yours is bigger my stays lean thru heavy usage. to each his own. the entire train of though connecting the president directly to the effectiveness of the military is flawed. at best the president and the government can support the military. at worst they can damage it by trying to make it "more democratic" or "more diverse" or "more nice". clinton tried to take action against al qaeda in ways that havent been reported. but you are wrong about the current cic and secdef having nothing to do with swift action in afghanistan. i saw the differences first hand. biggest problem was the attitude of clinton and friends with military. it became ok to punish military leadership for things that politicians who had no idea of what purpose of military is did not like. the bull**** pulled by the female politicians when Kelso was up for his star is a typical example. you say clinton and current admin are same and you are wrong. attitude of current admin towards use of military is different. Reagan took heat from many in US including religous leaders and almost all dems when he dared to call soviets "evil empire". wall comes down in berlin and all of a sudden every dem who was terrified of confronting the sovs even with words is "part of the victory team". current cic and his guys were taking great deal of public heat over iraq. the invasion wasnt delayed until the polls said it was ok. look at the heat they are taking over the preemptive doctrine. clinton admin would not have publicly announced that ever. things are being done by current admin out of the public eye that would never have been done by previous admin. it is my personal belief based on experience that things would not have gone as well post 9/11 if gore or clinton were cic. this has as much to do with cic as it does with type of secdef they would choose and other similar situations. having said that keep in mind that military does not serve the cic it serves the people of US. i took my job as serious regardless of cic. but i feel better about suffering thru ****ty parts of job when i believe in cic and senior leadership.

[Erlkonig]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
LOL Earlkonig whats with the mental breakdown today?

Ha! I suppose if there's anyone with personal experience of mental breakdowns, it would be you?

[funkedup]

Hey at least Grun is consistent.  

[anonymous]

Originally posted by GrimCO
Although I don't agree with everything GWB does, I honestly can't imagine what would have happened if Bill Clinton were in office when 9/11 happened. He just didn't have the cajones required of a President.

there it is again. as much as i dont like him in terms of honor world would not have ended if clinton or gore was cic after 9/11. every cic is advised by members of military on military action. no cic has ever totally ignored this advice. something would have been done. but not as fast and not with same visible confidence. clinton may have gone to UN over taliban supporting terrorists for example. the great thing in my opinion especially having seen the aversion to risk in previous years was that guys were heading for afghanistan almost immediately. make no mistakes the first month in afghanistan alot of things could have gone massively bad and resulted in very bad things for US military. but to go from leadership who is overly averse to risk to leadership who says "you are the pros go get em and good luck and be careful" it is a very great thing. think of cic and govt as king and military is very finely made sword that they are given. if they take care of sword and use it as trained to use it military is capable of great things. if they ignore sword or dont show it proper respect it can fail when they need it most. the cic and govt do not make the military great. the military leadership if professional and dedicated make the military great. but it is much easier to make military great with proper support and total lack of politically minded meddling with military on part of cic and govt. i knew things were going to get bad when clinton was cic and diver candidates in navy boot camp were being allowed to take "time outs" for water break during pt and if they didnt get "time outs" there was fear that complaint could damage career of co of the rtc.

[GRUNHERZ]

What are you talking about? I have been very good ever since they took off the strait jacket, really I have, really.

[GrimCO]

Originally posted by anonymous
there it is again. as much as i dont like him in terms of honor world would not have ended if clinton or gore was cic after 9/11. every cic is advised by members of military on military action. no cic has ever totally ignored this advice. something would have been done. but not as fast and not with same visible confidence.  

Not sure about you, but I think confidence is a major factor in judging a President. Having some indecisive guy in the Oval Office hemming and hawing for extended periods of time during a major crisis is indicative of weakness.

Bin Laden himself used the example of our withdraw from Somalia,  calling us "paper tigers".  Americans are not the only ones that notice such things.