What has happened to AH?

[Shane]

Originally posted by Don
Bingo!!!  

i'll still shoot you anyway, especially if you used it all up spraying at me!

[Don]

>> (and not only me) know that something has changed in MA.And it changes to the bad. <<

IMO the "something" you refer to is the quality of pilits in the game now. There are still good ones but, they are prolly not logged on at the same times as you are.
I also think this may be attributed to the lack of a coherent training component in the game. People just seem to want to log on and get kills. These kinda newbies dont have a clue and it isn't necessarily their fault. They are also the ones who will up repeatedly from a hopelessly capped field and get shot down repeatedly; a lot of fun for the vulchers but, no fun for the vulchee. These guys will remember and acquire strange ways of flying the game.
Hmmm, mebbe, or mebbe not

[rshubert]

The latest furballer whines:  

"There just aren't any good pilots in AH anymore, except me."

"BnZ tactics aren't good ACM, and bore me."

Y'all REALLY need to get over it.  Go shoot each other down in the duelling arena, willya??

[rshubert]

QUIT whining about head-ons.  Every one here knows at least two methods to avoid a head-on.  If you don't like 'em, avoid 'em.  If you get your panties in a wad and feel the need to shoot at the guy, take your medicine.

[moot]

screaming "whiner" to the protagonists from the front row seat.

the worse whiners are the whine whiners, they don't even have a point to make except how good their whine detecting skills are when they think they recognize a soap opera.

"There just aren't any good pilots in AH anymore, except me."
rather " there's too many crap pilots polluting the AH DOGFIGHTING (rather than running) pool"

"BnZ tactics aren't good ACM, and bore me."
rather "coward or clueless tactics are for the cowards or newbs respectively, as anyone else knows when they are out of killshot range and thus have no reason to extend any further. Boring if they linger out tail between legs."
That's boring , more running then fighting, just like a topic is boring when there is more metaphysical debate about whines then actual arguing of the real original point.

[Mister Fork]

It's nice to see how this conversation came out of Urchin's worries that Aces High is straying away from it's roots, to a bantering about 'what is a whine'.

THE PROBLEM is that gameplay sucks, and the fact we're all complaining about it means we care about Aces High.

Moot, Batz, and other fellow JG'ers have made it quite clear. The MA is BORING and change is needed.

The question is, what can be done NOW to improve the MA before AH2 beta starts?

Better yet, WHEN is AH2 beta starting? Pyro? Hitech? Skuz?

[Pepe]

Originally posted by Ecke-109-
How can someone be proud of his score while 'increasing' it this way?
 

How can anyone be proud of his "score"?  What does it mean in MA context?

AH flying is, at least for me, "having fun". Some guys (the ones willing to fite) provide AH with fun, for me. Some others (the ones willing to take a field) provide AH with the "defiance" factor (not easy to take off and defend a capped field. And then there are the ones that live up for the "score" factor. I could care less about them.

(btw., nice capping a hopeless field with ya, Ecke  )

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Ecke-109-

May Arlo hop in now and call this a whine.(The only thing that he can do while spending hours in the forum instead playing the game) And maybe it is a whine.
I (and not only me) know that something has changed in MA.And it changes to the bad.

Ecke

Welp ... I'll accomodate ya.

Ya WHINER!

[Arlo]

Originally posted by moot
screaming "whiner" to the protagonists from the front row seat.

the worse whiners are the whine whiners, they don't even have a point to make except how good their whine detecting skills are when they think they recognize a soap opera.

"There just aren't any good pilots in AH anymore, except me."
rather " there's too many crap pilots polluting the AH DOGFIGHTING (rather than running) pool"

"BnZ tactics aren't good ACM, and bore me."
rather "coward or clueless tactics are for the cowards or newbs respectively, as anyone else knows when they are out of killshot range and thus have no reason to extend any further. Boring if they linger out tail between legs."
That's boring , more running then fighting, just like a topic is boring when there is more metaphysical debate about whines then actual arguing of the real original point.

I care that you're bored ..... whiner.

[Steve]

Hey, not eveyone is bored.  Lots of people in the game are having a blast.  You guys that are complaining about the game being boring.. or that it's changed..... maybe you've just been around too long and need to find something else to do.
I'm not disputing your assertions that the game has changed so please do not take umbrage at my message.  The fact is, things change..everything does.  You can either adapt, complain on the boards about the good ol' days and be miserbale when you do play, or you can quit the game.  Seems simple enough.
Seriously, do you think lamenting that things have changed is going to suddenly cause the clock to turn backwards and bring back your happy time?  I think you've merely played the game too long.  Time to try something else in game, or move on.  The game has changed and continues to change.  You may not be among them, but there are loads of people having a blast in AH; join them or go away. Anything else is pretty much pointless, don't ya think?

[Pepe]

Originally posted by Steve
Hey, not eveyone is bored.  Lots of people in the game are having a blast.  You guys that are complaining about the game being boring.. or that it's changed..... maybe you've just been around too long and need to find something else to do.
I'm not disputing your assertions that the game has changed so please do not take umbrage at my message.  The fact is, things change..everything does.  You can either adapt, complain on the boards about the good ol' days and be miserbale when you do play, or you can quit the game.  Seems simple enough.
Seriously, do you think lamenting that things have changed is going to suddenly cause the clock to turn backwards and bring back your happy time?  I think you've merely played the game too long.  Time to try something else in game, or move on.  The game has changed and continues to change.  You may not be among them, but there are loads of people having a blast in AH; join them or go away. Anything else is pretty much pointless, don't ya think?

Dang! Im getting old  

[Batz]

TW9 why do you keep misrepresenting what folks are saying?

E fighting is perfectly described by Shaw. Get his book and read it because you are lost.

B'n'Z is a form of e fighting not the other way around. There are several variations of Boom and Zoom as well. From being aggressive with quick reverses to being less agressive and repositioning at the top of the zoom to re-evaluate before you attempt another pass. All this is determined by the situation.

Bore and ZZZZZZZZ is more like the Hit n Run that Hartman used is the Eastern front. High speed attacks from blind side then run and leave the area. It situations where life and death are online the line thsi makes sense. In AH this tactic only works when the guy you are attcking is afk, asleep or otherwise engaged. In a 1 v 1 situation it doesnt work. Icons give you away and theres little to now cloud cover and you cant hide in the sun. .5 g break is enough to escape the badguys guns.

So these hit n runs are easily avoidable. In the arena context where life means nothing whats gained by running? When I flew in the main if a guy ran I would pop on my film and later in the fiolm viewer check who it was. I would pop up their stats and 8 out of 10 times their kd was below 1. I think what was the point of him running? In one life events like scenarios Hit'n'Run is a good tactic. In IL2 FB coops at times I probrably run more then arlo in the ct. But in there if you die thats it your done.

No one is saying dont fly from an advantage or dont preserve that advantage. Just dont be a complete ****ing wuss. Unless you are a score potato (which most arent) whats gained from running?

There are tactics that can be used in which a poor turning plane can dominate a fight with out the need to run 25 miles.

Now understand extending and repositioning or regrabing is not whats being "whined" about. We are talking about long distance runners. Guys who will dive in miss their half assed pass and flat run not just out of icon range but miles away. Then they may have find the guts to turn around and do it again. When I see folks do this I call um on it and then go fly elsewhere.

Quit misrepresenting whats being talked about. E fighting is not always high speed dives, you can e fight starting at co alt or even at a disadvatage. 109s are best flown as Energy fighters - using its high climb rate to dictate the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics with very high speed passes do not suit the 109's style. It is better suited to the style of energy combat where the main objective is to set up a moderate altitude advantage right over or near the target. Then use short sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun passes. The 109 can then climb back out and loop or climb away as necessary. But even from a co alt situation the 109 can use its acclleration and climb to "e" fight.

A plane like a 109a8 is a great B'N'Z'r using high speed dives and zooms because it turns poorly and bleeds energy easily. Its a great high speed gun platform and maintain control at higher speeds. The quicker you reverse the less time the bad guy has to recover. As don said keeping  the pendulum swinging back and forth, up and down, is a great way to keep the pressure on the
bad guy. In areas of high concentrations of enemy, like cherrying picking over a furball, you may want to make a pass and then reposition to re-evaluate and pick another target.

None of that is what this thread is about.

Its about Bore and ZZZZZZZZZ. Bore as in boring and ZZZZZZZ as in "godamn you are putting me to sleep kill me please".

No one is saying bring a jug down to 500ft and turn fight my spit 5. But with the options that one has starting with an alt and speed advantge why would one just run? Its not about "let me kill you" its about lets have a good fight. If you win S! to ya thanks for the fun. If I win again thanks for the good fight.

If someones tries to game me or bore me i will let umm know. Just like we hear run90 run09 runstang ****fire etc... Its all in good fun, I mean if I cant have fun fighting umm a few good taunts will keep me awake until I rtb.

[Batz]

Ah ok This is where I stopped

Well judging by some of the statements and the fact that somehow "e fighting" has been put in same class as run and ho and bore and zoom, the only thing that could make some of these guys happy is if HTC disabled all planes but the spit5..

Guess next time im in a typh and i see a spit5 i'll just blow all my alt and e adv just so i can die honorably in turn fight..

Lotsa folks dunno the difference and you see that in their arguement. From some of your previous comments and finally the one I quoted above it seemed like you were saying B n Z and e fighting were the same thing. When B n Z is a type of e fighting.

[moot]

Why do you mention it if you don't care? It's not me who is bored but the guy that started the thread with the original non-whine related point.

back to the point, any dogfighting is a certain degree of BnZ.

Steve, I think it's not so far fetched that HTC will listen and find what would make the game more fun for everyone, and unless the crappy newbies don't want to, if they learn how to fly better, everyone including the old players will be happy in their furballing arena, and we won't have to just sit there trainspotting the next new trend in MA masses movement.

[moot]

If you keep the same old players with the same passion for the furball, kept playing against each other, they'll keep improving at everything they try against each other to win the dogfights.
If you drown that into a million newbs with no clues about anything, the old players might eventually (if not right away, not the case here) be a little jaded with the newbs ****ing up their fun, but thats not so much the case; the "old players" actually mostly welcomed fresh cannon fodder, it might still be fun, but nowhere near the blast of before.

- i didnt mean bnz but E fighting in tha post before.  Any dogfighting is a certain degree of E fighting for the position you want, killor run or anything.