What has happened to AH?

[lazs2]

well... this is all too complex for me... you see the red plane?  go get it and shoot it till the little guy falls out.  

see the real high red plane?  ignore it unless it comes down and then shoot it untill the little guy falls out.  

 See the huge group of red planes with no green ones?  don't go over there unless you want the attention.
lazs

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Batz
ccvi is saying your 2 kills per hour and .3 kd doesnt mean you "run". We both know that aint true. You see ccvi is asking how do I know you run by looking at those stats. Its easy I saw you do it numerous times.

If you actually see someone running (although at your low flying time in AH lately you probably didn't have the time to run into many runners) you can call him a runner all you want.
If you just read a score of someone who posted on the BBS and then try to argue that he's a runner because of his score, it's completely pointless, because score simply doesn't show running.

[Batz]

wtg tw9

F4Fs as seen in the main are most likely 90% fm2s. The fm2 is a real fun plane to fly. A lot of folks when there hear "e" fighting assume boom and zoom. While keeping an alt advantage gives you a reserve of "e" its not always "e" fighting.

With more involved e fighting not only are you trying to hold your enrgy (like zooming up) but you are trying to get the bad guy to bleed his.

So like your fight with the f4f the more pressure you keep on him the more hes tries to avoid your guns the more he bleeds. You just need to keep "more" energy then him at this point.


Now with a turner like a spit 5 and fm2 if you do lond extended zooms you give him time to recover and regain what e he lost. If you get too aggressive you may make a mistake.

They key is staying in the rear quarter of the bad guy, behind his 3/9 line.

for example you have a slight e advantage on a zeke in your typh. You wanna make your first gun pass so that you force the zeke to break hard. Instead of going straight up you could yo yo and come back around quickly. But you wanna watch that when you yo yo you dont slip out beyond his 3 /9 or he can turn or roll into you either cutting your angle or getting onto your 6.

To keep from doing this start your yo yo early and dont follow him throw his break.

I am work so I dont have time to draw up some images but maybe I will tonight.

The 3/9 line is wingtip to wingtip on the bad guy. As long as you position your self in his rear quarter he is helpless. Use e conserving manuvers to stay there like yo yos and rolls and try not to pull lead until you have a good probrability in killing him.

But not every guy you attck will just go into e bleeding breaks. They may try to force you to overshoot or conserve their e with rolls etc...... So sometimes extending is all you can do. Nothing wrong with that. But extending from nothing is running

But do what works for ya and have fun. Thats all anyone wants

[Batz]

ccvi as I said those I pointed out as runners I have seen run. The stats reflect what I have seen.

Arlo isnt saying he doesnt run, or atleast he wasnt , he had claimed it was "conservative flying".

Which is fine and good buts its boring.

Arlo knows the most hes heard me say to a runner is Wuss or Run Forest Run.

Its not until he tries to sell me some bs to explain his lameness that anything else gets said.

run walk whatever as long as I aint apart of it.

[Zippatuh]

It has nothing to do with BnZ...  It has everything to do with timid and untrained pilots.  No one wants to “die” and thus not get any benefit from at least trying.

I pulled an LA7 out of a furball heading back for friendly territory with fumes and about 200 rounds in my 51.  I was rather hoping he would leave me alone since I had neither the fuel nor ammunition to put up the good fight.  He gained to the point I had no choice.

Let's go down swiging.  I reversed, got the advantage, he ran.  I was able to pull parallel with him about 3K distance between us.  He must have thought about it for a few seconds then nosed over and went for home.

It was just us, he had all the advantage, and he chose to return to the steamroller.  Hell, he even ran me down after 10 miles on the way home.

Grow some stones people and engage!  Jebus!

[Batz]

Here read here

Boom And Zoom Tactics. (Andy Bush)

Part 1
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_024a.html

Part2
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_025a.html

Part3
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_026a.html

Part4
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_027a.html

See th image blelow (from above article)

See how the attacker yo yos and stays in the rear quarter?



This what can happen if you get out in front of the 3/9

[Batz]

one more from above linked interview

[Edbert]

My first post in about a year (I think)...

1st off, AH is not dead. There are more players here now than there ever were.

2nd, the art of ACM is not dead, it is just in hibernation. If you up in a plane made before summer of '44 you have virtually NO chance of escape unless you are on the overly large maps or you get lucky enough to slip out of the gangbang. So you don't see them (early war planes) much.

Since the beta days there were turning planes whining about runstangs.

There will always be those who try for k/d over k/t and vice versa.

It is nearly impossible to find a 1v1 when there are ~500 people online. At least if it starts out that way it wont stay 1v1 to completion unless the pilots are mismatched since hordes of La7/spit9/nikis will invariably show up at 20K.

There will always be folks who refuse to fight the way you want them to. Find a way to beat them at their game or find another target. If they only want to run they are not much of a threat. When was the last time a prop fighter (non newbie) was killed by a 262 he saw coming? Sure they are annoying but so are the complaints.

___________________

What I think Urchin (hiya bro!) has struck a chord with is those who refuse to engage unless it is a 5v1 in their favor. Even when they have all the advantages. Or those who will fly on past a teamate in trouble en route to a vulch session up ahead.

The other thing (which may be a partial cause of the situation I just mentioned) is that the art of the drag-and-bag is being lost. I cannot think of how many times I have been asked for help and come in hot to clear a countrymate only to have him break towards me. AAARRRGGHHH!!!

As far as countries that display various skill levels or tactics? Hogwash! They all have the same things going on. Our squad has been rotating countries for years. All countries have aces, all have dweebs, all have newbies, none of them regularly call 6, and they all suck equally:D

BTW...I vote for kweassa's perk plan. Of course getting 15-20 perkies in a hour should not be too hard unless you are part of the 51D/La7/spit9/N1K2 hordes.

_____________________
Edbert (mediocre pilot) out

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Don

I also think this may be attributed to the lack of a coherent training component in the game. People just seem to want to log on and get kills.

BINGO!!!

Personally, I think this is one of the major (if not the major) reason why we see a lot of these things in the MA.  


Ack-Ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by rshubert
The latest furballer whines:  



"BnZ tactics aren't good ACM, and bore me."

 

No one said BnZ isn't a good or valid tactic.  The complaint are those that think BnZ means one pass and then zooming for home.  This is not BnZ, no matter how those of you think it is.  BnZ is not about making one pass and then hauling bellybutton for the nearest ack or friendly, nor is it 'conservative' or 'smart' flying like some of you think running is.


Ack-Ack

[Arlo]

*chuckle*

I guarantee you if I'm not turning around for another pass it's because of one of the following:

• Plane/pilot damage recieved in the initial pass (whether we merged head on or whether he managed to maneuver for a snapshot in passing).
• My opponent going ninety to nothin' to catch me and keeping my seperation to a minimum.
• My opponent managed to catch me and shoot me down.

In the first case I'll rtb ... if possible. And if my opponent catches me or somebody else does (as happens as often as not) - oh well.

In the second, I'll turn around once there's at least 1-2k of seperation (depending on the other plane involved) ... unless my opponent picked up reinforcements on the way. In which case I'll look for options to even the odds (or better yet, give me some sort of advantage). Whether it be nearby friendlies, ack, some cloud cover, a fleet, or just getting myself out of icon range and looking for a way to reposition, doesn't matter.

In the third, you can bet your diaper I scissored, barrel rolled, split essed, immeled (double immel if energy allows) and did whatever I could to shake ... and *ShruG* it didn't work. Usually because my opponent was not only skilled but had a plane that was both fast and more maneuverable than mine (or I managed to blow some e and my opponent's plane had better acceleration and some punch).

In no case will I whine or carry on as much as my opponent usually does ... though I may blow him a kiss if it looks like he's about to pop a vein. ;)

Anyone who has a problem with that ... has problems. :D

[MANDOBLE]

My conclussion, we have:

boom and runners: better ignore them, they are not a danger and they are not a target.

Turn'n burners: You can ignore them or kill them, as easy the first as the second. They are mostly target fixated and are only a relative danger for their fixated targets, usually, other turn'n burners. Usually they cant dictate any fight at all.

Boon'n zoomers: They are not easy targets and they are the real danger. Usually they try to keep several enemies under control at the same time. Trying to kill them all one by one while no letting the rest to escape. Trying to kill them may be as boring as trying to catch at boom and runner, because, if well done, they'll be out of your guns by speed, range, alt or E while giving you no chance at all to flee. These are not target fixated, and they have always (or try to have) an open escape way.


E fighting, vertical fighting, etc are covered by turn'n burners and boom'n zoomers, but their respective goals are very different ones.

[ccvi]

You forgot to post Kills/Time so we could identify you as a runner....

[Shane]

Originally posted by ccvi
You forgot to post Kills/Time so we could identify you as a runner....

k/t, actually does help one get a good idea of how one flies... if you see a fairly low k/t that means one of several things:

a) you're an alt monkey who spends a lot of time getting to alt.
b) you're a timid player - one who probbaly runs a lot.
c) you're one of them people who think K/D is *the* measure of skill.

low k/t high k/d low k/s - alt monkey boom and zoomer who gets 1-2 kills and runs home to land them because "live at all costs" is how the real aces flew.

low k/t low k/d low k/s timid alt monkey who can't fly fer chit, often runs at the slightest hint of risk and runs hom eimmediately upon getting the rare 1 kill.

low to med k/t high k/d high k/s - better than even chances it's a lame altmonkey who vulches(when totally safe)/cherry picker/gangbanger who lets others takes risks and steals kills from those working hard - possesses crafty survival SA, but in general is at a loss when away from a safe horde - runs home when huge advantage dissipates to merely big advantage.

you can do something like this to mock the quakers if you want.  

[Shane]

Originally posted by TW9
D. U play point and spent most of your time in ftrs setting up kills for squadies.. (ever wing w/ Crescent?)

let me qualify this whole k/t thing with, maps and times one flys can have an influence on it.

E. U go afk alot while inflight..

F. U go on attack runs forgetting to score them as fighter

D.  stop being a sucker... make *them* work for thier kills.

E. which translates to being an inadvertent alt-monkey.

F. which show up on your attack stats. none ever just looks at fighter scores without also eyeballing and mentally figuring out how your attack scores figure into things.

i don't think in general you're a runner type TW... it's really hard to generically classify specific people based on cold hard stats - there are always exceptions and mis-casts.... but.... but.... in general it does give you an idea of how ones flies, time-wise, not necessarily how well one can actually fight.

the bottom line really, is that we all know who is who and what is what after a time and fashion, this stats flaming is merely fun to troll and tweak others with.

i don't care how or what one flys, i just want to at least see some decent abilities to handle oneself when the need arises.  those who never strive to at least do the utmost best they can are cheating themselves and others out of even more fun.

no one really dies in the game... stats only impress those who know no better, and eventually most people do know better unless they leave before that point.