Hmm our troops took a page from Devils Guard!

[zonta123]

Originally posted by SOB
That's nice for you.  It wasn't meant as such.


SOB

You don't need to argue more; you have already convinced me that you have limited intellectual capability.

[SOB]

Well, I'm glad we've got that settled.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by GScholz
How old were you in '95 anyways, perhaps it was just your father who fled and failed his duty.

 

So far I like you GScholz, dont try to change that....

[Erlkonig]

Originally posted by SOB
Well, I guess my question to you then is this.  Do you honestly think we would have held them indefinitely?  Or worse yet, that we would have excecuted them?  I don't.  I think US soldiers are being killed on a regular basis what was done was perfectly acceptible in the face of this, and fortunately it worked and the General turned himself in.  Had he not, I do believe they would have been released, and while in custody would have been treated well.  Or perhaps I'm just naive.


SOB

What difference does anything you just said make as to whether they were hostages or not?  

What I'm trying to get at is this: if we can't abide by the protocols layed out in the Geneva Convention because it hinders effective methods of dealing with our enemies maybe it is time to withdraw our participation in it.

[Raubvogel]

Some of you are right, and some of you are seriously mentally handicapped. You decide which is which.

[GRUNHERZ]

So I can no longer upset about the UN betrayal of 8,000 refugees under their care?

And also that I should let you consider that my father's struggle to make batter life for our family in America and raising two kids as a single parent in a foreign country is some sort of sell out or comporable to that betrayal?

I donno man, I just dont see the comparsion...

[GtoRA2]

I agree with you...

The war in Iraq is turning into a guerrilla war, trying to fight a guerrilla war against people who have not signed nor care about the conventions while we try to adhere to them is a waste of time.
It will just get U.S. service men killed.

[Dowding]

So I can no longer upset about the UN betrayal of 8,000 refugees under their care?

You bring it up time and time again, as evidenced in this thread. And the fact that those that died were of an ethnicity that your own countrymen would have similarly wiped out with just as much cold-bloodedness doesn't really sit right in my mind.

If you don't want to be upset by it, don't bring it into th discussion. It really is as simple as that.

[GtoRA2]

Why adhere to it if your opponent is not going to? I am not saying we should slaughter innocents, and I do not think our troops would do it.

Appling rules to war seems a tad silly to me, the allies in WW2 bombed cities out of existence and the civilian death toll be damned. We did it because we where convinced it would shorten the war. in turn saving lives over all( most importantly the lives of our troops)

Yet we moralized over the SS burning French resistance in a church?  

So if we can brake the rules and no one really gets hurt, and it brings in the guy we need to find sadam, or WMD or even help cut resistance then go for it.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Well apart from the moral reasons of not punishing innocent civilians perhaps the thought of having all those civilians having a grudge in a country awash with weapons would hopefully deter the military - all the Iraqi's have to do is kill on average 1 American every day and America will pack it's bags and leave.

Going after civilians is playing into the hands of the nationalist/religious groups who wish America to leave.

"We're the good guys, we're here to liberate you!! and if you don't tell me what I want to know, whether you know the answer or not I'm going to destroy your house and your farm!"

You want the world cheering on the filling of body bags and aluminium coffins being sent home to good old USA?

Anyone want to look up the instances of where a Guerilla war has been beaten when waged by an indigenous population? Malaya doesn't count those were mainly Chinese and not part of the native Malay population. Let us know what you find out.

[GtoRA2]

Schadenfreude_
 I would agree with you if we had KILLED the wife and kid, we didn't...

We used them yes but no one was hurt. That is a far cry from stuffing them in a church and burning it down.

[_Schadenfreude_]

It's just that it seems to me to be very a very stupid way of doing things - my experience of COIN ops was that the first thing you had to do was gain the trust of the local pops, show that you meant them no harm and you were there to help and protect them - then they would come to you with info and show you where mines/booby traps, arms caches were it just makes sense.

Didn't these guys get the "Hearts and Minds" lecture in basic training? ( well 2nd or 3rd phase actually)

[GtoRA2]

Schadenfreude
 Does a generals wife really count as one of the normal civilians? Are these people popular with the regular Iraqi?

[GtoRA2]

GScholz
 I see your points.

 I just do not agree that this is bad enough to turn the population agaist us.

A: we are not killing them.
B: we are not doing this on a large scale
C: I am not sure the Iraqi people give a **** about a General and his wife, when they worked for Sadam.

Time will tell though.

[Jack55]

Originally posted by DiabloTX

One entry found for hostage.
 

Main Entry: hos·tage
Pronunciation: 'häs-tij
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from hoste
Date: 13th century
1 a : a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge that promises will be kept or terms met by the other party b : a person taken by force to secure the taker's demands
2 : one that is involuntarily controlled by an outside influence

 

In regards to definition number two, are convicts in prison hostages?