Author Topic: So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...  (Read 2755 times)

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2003, 06:05:01 PM »
mos, last night I defended our own CV162 for an hour, until it got out of enemy range, alone in a F6F-5, against eight people attempting to kill it.

 Ofcourse, our 5 inch guns were also manned.

 ...

 JB42 is right. What it really boils down to is whether or not if somebody is really willing to do that "boring" and "not fun" task, in benefit of others.

 It is only natural that if you park a CV near a base, and don't have sufficient numbers of people to suppress it quick, people -  kamikaze or not - will go after the CV. It is after all, a primary target.

 So, how do CVs get sunk in MA?

 Unlike an airbase which cannot move, the CV is a mobile platform. When in bad odds, it can always try and retreat, come back later in fresh shape. But the problem is, people neglect that fact, and treat it as an insta-furball machine, permanently embedded 5~10 miles outside enemy base.

 So, in a hairy furball(which, also means that quick base suppression has already failed), unless there are people who can see one~two moves ahead of the defenders, there is always bound to be a defender or two slipping through the gobs of attackers and going to  the CV. Or, stay near hostile shores too long, and you bet there's gonna be pack of buffs coming to hunt it down, lifting from another field.

 Nobody foresees that? Then the CV dies.

 Everybody sees it coming, but too lazy to defend it? The CV dies.

 When the CV turns away and runs to open sea, as soon as it escapes the radar range its chances of survival go way up. The further you move from the shore, the further and longer the enemy has to travel. With each wave of attack thwarted, the CV hunters have to up again with those heavy ordnance, and get to alt again.

 Practically, this whining about toughness of CVs is just like JB said. People want to park the CV near enemy base, with virtually no threat to it, and overwhelm the defenders and vulch the crap out of it, without having to do any tedious but vital chores such as "defense". Its got auto-flak, the ack-barrier, spawns PTs, GVs, aircraft, gun batteries.. wow, all that firepower and no need to defend it at all. Just attack and attack and attack.

 Frankly, nothings gonna satisfy the furball lovers until the CV is whined to its invincibility. As long as they refuse to cooperate with the strat lovers, and ignore imminent threats and have their own fun, they gonna pay the consequences for it.

 Nobody can dictate how you fly? That's good.

 Then, you will not dictate to anybody how they deal with you, or your strat/tactical targets.

Offline Steve

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6728
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2003, 09:17:53 PM »
Well, Kweassa, I guess you could call it whining.  I'm hearing plenty of complaints about folks not being able to find a fight, though.  Rude was commenting on it just a few minutes ago... then logged.  I think hardened cv's would lead to more/longer fights.  You seem to be bitterly against it. Tell me, how would it hurt you and your enjoyment of the game?
Member: Hot Soup Mafia - Cream of Myshroom
Army of Muppets  Yes, my ingame name is Steve

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2003, 08:11:18 AM »
yep... it's not about defending the CV... that is strat weinie mental masturbation... no way are the majority of the players gonna be interested in that or even notice if someone does defend.   Mostly CV's are sunk by suicide dweebs anyway and they are unstoppable..  you would have to be as dedicated to gameyness as they are to defend against em... I have killed the same low level bomber guy as many as four times before the cv is sunk.

no.. it is about finding good fights for a lot of people... make it so the CV's can't get within 5 miles of the shore.... add a cv to the group or...

how bout we make it so that the CV's are invincible untill all the escort is sunk?
lazs

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2003, 09:18:06 AM »
The bigger the furball, the more fun. However, also the bigger the risk and more numerous the dweebs. How you ever think you gonna get rid of suicidal people? After all, they fighting the way they like, in what they like, no? Now you whine that something be changed for you because you don't like them ruining your own fun?

  Us masturbating strat weenies stop CV killers all the time.  

 Unfortunately, like you pointed out Lazy, even you belly-scratching furball lubbers who usually benefit the most from our masturbating weenism, are all ungrateful SOBs that you rarely notice when some people are fighting hard to keep CVs alive for a prolonged period of time.

 After it does get sunk, no thanks to the idjits swarming the target field in a gigantic luftberry circle 500 ft above ground like a pack of horny geese, all the while us weeneis scream "some of you please grab alt".....   you come here and complain that its the other guys' fault, that your fun gets ruined? -- Blaming CV hunters, suicidal dweebs, weak CV durability, etc etc and everything.... Everything except you yourselves of course.

 Man, how self serving can one get?

Offline NoBaddy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2943
      • http://www.damned.org
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2003, 11:44:58 AM »
I have to agree with  Kweassa. This is beginning to sound like self serving "I want my cake and I want to eat it too!". Unfortunately for the furry ballers, the MA game is not just about furballing. It is a multi-faceted game with many different things to do. Admittedly, I am not particularly good at any of them...but, I do try and I have a lot of fun doing it.

To be honest, focusing on only one aspect of the game would bore me to tears. For this reason, I will always advocate that terrains do their best to give something to everyone. The point being, what I enjoy doing is no more or less important that what any other player wants to do.
NoBaddy (NB)

Flying since before there was virtual durt!!
"Ego is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity."

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2003, 12:38:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ccvi
how do you take off from the other CVs in one group?


Select the CV you wish to up from

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2003, 12:54:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
I have to agree with  Kweassa. This is beginning to sound like self serving "I want my cake and I want to eat it too!". Unfortunately for the furry ballers, the MA game is not just about furballing. It is a multi-faceted game with many different things to do. Admittedly, I am not particularly good at any of them...but, I do try and I have a lot of fun doing it.

To be honest, focusing on only one aspect of the game would bore me to tears. For this reason, I will always advocate that terrains do their best to give something to everyone. The point being, what I enjoy doing is no more or less important that what any other player wants to do.


C'mon NB:)

You know that by making adjustments which enhance and prolong the faster lower kind of fights, that in of itself will in no way take away from a strat players fun.

I logged on last night and located the largest collection of colored pixels on the map....went to the base which was under attack and found the fuel at 25%...tha's cool I said...I'll just defend here a bit....well, the ack was down and the field was being vulched.

So....I went to a nearby field(sector and a quarter away) grabbed my 38(I'm trying to learn to fly this thing), only to find, yup, the fule at 25%....at that loadout, only the pony could get me to the fight with a chance of rtb'in...at best, a short stay there as well.

So....I went to the next closest field....repaeated the same, fuel at 25%. Now some of you may think that I should have just grabbed from a field 2 or 3 sectors away and wasted 20 minutes gettin to a fight...if so, thats your right. Me, personally, want to engage quickly as I do not have many opportunities to fly.

Now I believe the strat guys should be able to take out fuel....just not with one plane and so easily.

I left the MA and went to the DA where guess what? It was getting dark....in the DA it was getting dark? What's up with that?
Hopefull, HTC will fix the dark DA issue.

All we want is for the hordes of strat super missions to earn their victories and not just sit on folks and give them no options. Multiple CV's would help accomplish this while only giving the strat guys more strat targets which should give them a woody I would think?

Do you disagree?

Offline Steve

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6728
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2003, 01:19:40 PM »
Self serving... aren't we all self serving when it comes to looking for things we enjoy? That statement just wasn't well thought out.  And when it comes to entertainment, yes, I want my cake and I want to eat it, too. NB, neither was that one.
  Later in the evenings, specifically on the big Isle map it can  be nigh impossible to find a fight.  I simply don't see how upping cv hardness and even adding another cv to the TG will adversely effect non-furballer types.  I don't have a thing against folks who like to bomb or take bases... etc.  Heck, I'm not even a hardcore furballer like Lazs.. I just think  he has a good point, specifically as it relates to Big Isles.
I've already asked the question once and couldn't get an answer from those who are against his idea:  How will upping cv hardness and adding another cv adversely effect non-furballers?
Doubling cv hardness won't make them unsinkable, but it will lengthen the duration of those great fights.  Adding a cv gives the strat guys another target: in this way strat guys  actually benefit as well as furballers.  I'm not saying it's a perfect idea...what idea is?  I AM saying that Lazs idea will increase the duration of those furballs that so many people enjoy while not seriously effecting the enjoyment of others in the game.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2003, 01:21:45 PM by Steve »
Member: Hot Soup Mafia - Cream of Myshroom
Army of Muppets  Yes, my ingame name is Steve

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2003, 01:24:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
The point being, what I enjoy doing is no more or less important that what any other player wants to do.


Indeed. I agree absolutely. Now, if both sides just fully understood this simple concept.

As Rude said, the furball types do not affect the strat game in the least and really don't care that the strat folks are doing what strat folks want to do.

That is, UNTIL the strat game impairs the furball guys from doing what furballers do.

That's where "no more or less important that what any other player wants to do" comes into play.

The door needs to swing both ways.

IMO.

Now, it may be that you can't achieve both in one arena or at least in the present form of the MA.

I have high hopes of AH2: TOD being an attractive draw for those in search of deeper strategy, more "realism", a stronger form of "death penalty" or whatever. I want those guys to be happy.

At the same time, I hope AH2: TOD, by drawing those guys away from the MA will improve the MA for those less interested in strategy, etc, etc.

Just my .02.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline NoBaddy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2943
      • http://www.damned.org
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2003, 01:28:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
C'mon NB:)

Do you disagree?


Hell no! I have never implied that I do. What irks me is the continuing childish 'if you don't play my way, you suck' theme that seems to run through all of these threads.

Yah, I know..the same tripe was being written 13 years ago on the Genie AW boards. I guess some things will never change :).

I do know that HT is leaning towards toughening the strat objects at the fields (why? cuz I asked :)). Personally, the biggest problem I have with any of the strat stuff is that anyone (single or group) can negatively impact the game for an entire country for hours. IMO, if max downtime was reduced to 1 hour...the game in general would benefit immensly.

Oh well...that's not my call. If it was...this game woulda been outta business long ago, I'm sure :D.
NoBaddy (NB)

Flying since before there was virtual durt!!
"Ego is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity."

Offline NoBaddy

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2943
      • http://www.damned.org
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2003, 01:47:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Indeed. I agree absolutely. Now, if both sides just fully understood this simple concept.

As Rude said, the furball types do not affect the strat game in the least and really don't care that the strat folks are doing what strat folks want to do.

That is, UNTIL the strat game impairs the furball guys from doing what furballers do.

That's where "no more or less important that what any other player wants to do" comes into play.

The door needs to swing both ways.

IMO.
 


Actually Toad...that door does swing both ways now. The strat players' "job" is to impair the enemy (furballers included). Part of the problem is that furballers refuse to accept and act upon this. Instead of playing the MA game, they have a tendency to demand that the MA be setup to play their way or that their own private niche be carved out for them in the MA.

To be fair (yah...I can be :)), the strat players have done similar things when they felt their 'fun' was being messed with. (COD...I did love resupplying a field to 100% even before the 17's that trashed it were out of sight :D).

For me, dropping the Baby Ruth bar in the pool and screaming "TURD" is the most fun in the game. As long as I can continue to find ways to do this...I will be a happy camper. Geez...I'm soooooo easy :D.
NoBaddy (NB)

Flying since before there was virtual durt!!
"Ego is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity."

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2003, 01:54:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
no.. it is about finding good fights for a lot of people... make it so the CV's can't get within 5 miles of the shore.... add a cv to the group


Not a bad idea...set up a reef line.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2003, 02:02:03 PM »
The cv ack is inept.  Anyone can fly right past the cruisers and up to the CV if they are flying on the deck.  A 3 bomber formation can pass over the CV at 2k and 200mph and survive.  Neither of these should be remotely possible.  Getting within 5k of the cv from any direction should be a deathwish.  Not a "I might get pinged before I release, but doubt it" wish.  

Turn the fricking ack back up.  Move the dweeb tactics away from the bases and call it a "furball".

MiniD

Offline Apache

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1419
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2003, 02:03:04 PM »
Some (most IMO) don't see what we're saying.

It's pretty simple actually. If the strat guys didn't show up at the furbal and pork whatever it is we're fighting at/over, we would most likely not leave that spot. Strat guys wouldn't even know we were there.

But oh no! Can't have that CV floatin' around.

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now...
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2003, 02:07:09 PM »
What's worse... the strat guys showing up thinking its more than just a furball or the furballers showing up and thinking its supposed to be just a furball?

You don't call dibs on fights and bases.

MiniD