Author Topic: So how bout this for a way to make the maps fun for now... (Read 2765 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #75 on:** August 08, 2003, 11:04:50 AM »

several things are clear... so long as there is no balance between strat and fun, or worse, there is nothing for one or the other elements to do on a map... there will be animosity

also.. when ah2 comes out it will be interesting to see how many walk the walk of the "this is a sim damn it... it's not meant to be fun!"

Organization is a word that holds meaning to people who worship it... they will never understand that others find it sorta.... wussy. But... much as I elected myself Public Relations Officer Of the BK's.... I will elect myself..

King of the furballers! that's right...supremo... jefe for life, major domo... When lazs is on all furballers will listen intently for my latest plan and organize into a... melle. Thanks muck et all for coming up with this brilliant solution.

and kwea... I actually do have like 12,000 perk points and have no use for em except to up the occassional temp to hunt down the sissy pee 51 fuel prokers when I am absolutely bored to tears.

The CV's need to be tougher to enhance gameplay for a large segment of the AH population. The timid building battlers and walter middy types would be relatively unaffected.. They never really are by furballers in any event.

It boils down to... the strat guys depend on making the map so boring that people are forced to play their boring strat game. They know that us grasshoppers will revert to fun at any chance... they are dillegent in trying to crush any chance fot fun to develop and take people away from the grand hamster wheel of field capture.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's and...
King of all Noble Furballers
Bane of the timid strat sissies.

beet1e · « **Reply #76 on:** August 08, 2003, 11:13:47 AM »

Mr. Toad.

I have been here much longer than 6 months, and I don't need to have done any homework to make an observation about the whines of the past six months. I made clear that I was focussing on that period in the sentence which began

Quote

But reading between the lines of various threads this past 6 months, and by making my own observations of AH gameplay

in one of my posts above. Did you say something about homework?

Muckmaw said

Quote

Personally, I can tell you without a doubt, if AH became a game that was a WWII version of quake, I would look elsewhere for my entertainment.

I think that's already happened. I know of quite a few people who have suspended play until AH2 comes out.

Hey muckmaw, can you email me please - orangebeet1e@yahoo.co.uk - I have a couple of things to ask you, and you're not accepting emails off the BBS.

muckmaw · « **Reply #77 on:** August 08, 2003, 11:16:56 AM »

I'm not accepting E-mails off the BBS??

That explains that lack of death threats.

Toad · « **Reply #78 on:** August 08, 2003, 11:19:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by muckmaw
We're still going to have griefers, 2 week wonders, and bored tools bombing the fuel etc in the MA. Chances are there would have to be major changes in the MA to accomodate Furball Nirvana....

Second problem. Say these changes are made, but ToD flops. You've got the strats coming back into a MA with no strat.

Prob 1:

As long as the numbers are reduced, there won't be so many 40 plane steamroller hordes. So it'll be easy to work around them on the big maps especiallly. 2 week wonders never really are a factor, are they? Easy to kill, even easier to dodge. Only changes I'd contemplate to that new MA environment would be to roll back some of the "strat" so the fights would be better. If TOD offers missions and ranks and making a "life" worth something... who needs zone bases in the MA anymore? Who cares about fuel porking? Those guys won't be in there, right? So take it out.

Prob 2:

Of course there's going to be great whining, wailing and gnashing of teeth. The strat guys are going to be fighting other strat guys about the purest form of realistic strat to implement in the TOD. I think HT's solution will be obvious, since it already worked once. The TOD setup will be handed over to the most vocal critics of the TOD... just like the CT.

and then in a cruel turn of the hamster wheel of fate, when disgruntled strat guys come back to the MA complaining, someone will politely point out to them that they go back to the "strat arena".

All hail Laz, King of the Furballers, Emperor For Life, Beloved of the Wingmen!

Toad · « **Reply #79 on:** August 08, 2003, 11:25:25 AM »

Fine Beetle. Ignore history. How conveeeeeeeeeeeeenient!

These changes that the furballers are crying for that upset you so?

How did the need for those changes come about? Given that there essentially WAS no strat in the early days?

Could it possibly be that it was the strat guys that were always the ones to whine to HTC to have the game changed - changes to furballing of all things?

History, chum. Strat is a relative Johnny-come-lately; it was non-stop whining to HTC for changes by the strateegerists that finally drove the furballers to complain.

HT's solution? Draw you own conclusions, but I personally think the TOD is his answer. Right now, I'm content. Because I think good things will happen for those for whom "the fight's the thing" in the not too distant future.

Rude · « **Reply #80 on:** August 08, 2003, 11:27:09 AM »

Herein lies the truth of the matter....

Kweassa's Fighter Stats

vs. Enemies Kills / Deaths + 1
1.36842 (647)
1.33333 (322)
1.5 (345)
Kills / Sorties
0.55319 (1300)
0.66667 (589)
0.9 (352)
Kills / Hour
4.248 (1175)
2.664 (829)
9.324 (267)
Hit percentage
6.59 % (1013)
31.59 % (286)
9.818 % (649)
Points
2337.29208 (1067)
194.70222 (1000)
723.09903 (633)

Muckmaw's Fighter Stats

vs. Enemies Kills / Deaths + 1
0.375 (1910)
0.26667 (1097)
0.75 (805)
Kills / Sorties
0.21429 (2216)
0.28571 (1024)
0.5 (788)
Kills / Hour
2.628 (1865)
1.656 (1063)
10.296 (217)
Hit percentage
5.702 % (1232)
7.06 % (1167)
3.571 % (1163)
Points
596.51182 (1931)
117.89989 (1103)
342.36392 (915)

Now if I couldn't kill anyone in a fighter, then I'de ride in boats, GV's and buffs also.

You guys are Lamb Killers...no wonder you don't get it.

lazs2 · « **Reply #81 on:** August 08, 2003, 11:47:32 AM »

eeeewwww.. that's gonna hurt.

Look, the funny thing is that these are the kinda guys that say they can find a fite anytime they like.... they say that the map is action packed with something for everyone (if everyone wants one fight per hour).. they say that we are picking on them by pointing to their very public domain stats. They claim to be "strat" and goal oriented but claim that stats are meaningless... they envy the thousands upon thousands of perk points earned by those of us who never care about perk points. ... they claim that the furballers are quakers who fly till they die with no eye toward survival yet the furballers kill and land kills 3 or more times as often as they do even when they are their most timid.

The current maps and strat favor their kind of gameplay. Is this what we want?

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
King of all Noble Furballers.

muckmaw · « **Reply #82 on:** August 08, 2003, 11:48:39 AM »

Uh-oh, Rude pulled up our scores...Oh no! We suck. Wow, I never knew that. Oh my god, thanks for pointing that out rude.

Why don't you spend a little more time and check last months scores too. Cosidering I've logged 5 hours for this tour, I'm sure you can extrapolate alot.

Have you ever considered that maybe I don't find as much pleasure in furballing as I do in other aspects of AH, therefore I have not practiced it as much, and cannot rack up a 40 kills sortie?

Show me one post where I pretend to be anything I'm not.

I never said I was a furballer, or that I was any good at it. My only reason for even posting to these threads is to offer some ideas to the guys who do enjoy it. I've become interested in dogfighting more of late, but I guess I'm not good enough to comment on these threads, huh?

I'll have to file an application to Jefe-For-Life to comment on furball threads. Now where are those forms...

muckmaw · « **Reply #83 on:** August 08, 2003, 12:14:46 PM »

Lazs-

I can find a fight anytime I like. The difference between you and I is what we consider a good fight. Having only been flying for furball 50% of my online time for the past 6 months, I've not have a chance to become jaded, or disgruntled with the quantity of dogfights I find.

Look, your happy getting into a knife fight, and getting kills lotsa kills, and with any luck, landing with a gallon of fuel and 10 rounds left. Good for you.

I'm happy flying however I can get an advantage. If I land one kill in an hours flight time, I'm satisfied with myself. These are my goals, no one elses, and this is what I enjoy doing.

So this means, because I don't fly your way, I'm not allowed to comment on gameplay that affects us all? I'm not allowed to offer idea's on ways that may help?

If that's the case, I suppose you have no right commenting on strat related issues?

Is this what you want, Sparticus?

Steve · « **Reply #84 on:** August 08, 2003, 12:21:55 PM »

Beet1e quote: " Folks might say "we want to keep the CV off shore so we can have great fights and furball action", when what they really mean is they want to vulch and pad out their scores and think what aces they are. "

Beet1e my friend, in my case this is dead wrong. I love defending bases, even if the "cv horde" has significantly larger numbers. How can I establish that this is true? Well, look at the plane I fly: mostly P51D. I also fly the spit V some. Obviously, I'm not a CV vulch dweeb. You and 42 have mistakenly derived that this opinion is largely driven by such people. I'm not saying that such people do not exist, just that in my case, this description does not apply. I want the CV fights to last longer because I love the fights a CV attracts. From what I see in the arena, there are plenty of people just like me. Try to name one person who "pads his score" by vulching off a cv... just one.

beet1e · « **Reply #85 on:** August 08, 2003, 12:27:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
History, chum. Strat is a relative Johnny-come-lately; it was non-stop whining to HTC for changes by the strateegerists that finally drove the furballers to complain.

I doubt that. If you had done your homework, you would know that AH was designed and developed by the same people who created Brand-W. And strat and field capture etc. was in Brand-W when I joined in 1998.

So I put it to you that HTC always intended to add strategy to AH, and that it was not put there in response to whines, though whines there may have been.

Furballing may be older than strat, but that in no way makes one better or more correct than the other. Fact is that if there was only furballing and nothing else, there would be some account cancellations.

I would not stay in a game that offered only furballing. That's partly why I skipped week-1 in Brand-W - there were no jabo planes worth bothering with.

But I have done the furball thing in US Prime Time. Got 9 kills in a CHog one sortie. The fact that even a strat-doofus like me was able to do that demonstrates how little skill is involved - or the meaningless nature of the stats. Either way, the snide put-down of MuckMAW's stats just lawndarted.

muckmaw · « **Reply #86 on:** August 08, 2003, 12:43:34 PM »

Scary part is, id my stats were like Kweassa's I would consider it a successful tour!:D

I have to hire Mathman as a personal tutor.

DrDea · « **Reply #87 on:** August 08, 2003, 12:50:55 PM »

QUOTE Could it possibly be that it was the strat guys that were always the ones to whine to HTC to have the game changed - changes to furballing of all things? QUOTE

Actually HT was looking to meander this way since the begining of the game.It just didnt all come together all at once.I believe they wanted a strat orientated lay out from day one.

QUOTE History, chum. Strat is a relative Johnny-come-lately; it was non-stop whining to HTC for changes by the strateegerists that finally drove the furballers to complain. QUOTE

See above again

QUOTE HT's solution? Draw you own conclusions, but I personally think the TOD is his answer. Right now, I'm content. Because I think good things will happen for those for whom "the fight's the thing" in the not too distant future. QUOTE

The TOD isnt HT's answer to anything but natural progression.You let a game go stagnant and it dies.IE Air Warrior.If you dont keep up with the Jones then the Jones are gonna get your clientel.You shouldnt assume that TOD is just to pacify the Strat types.Im betting alot of the Furball types will give it a shot for the upgraded graphics

Actually TOD isnt going to be a climb in and do whatever you want deal.Theres still going to be a strat aspect in the MA and there should be.Telling Strat orientated people to "GO TO TOD" would be much like them telling the furballers to "GO TO DA" Sure there aimed at the basic premise each wants,but there limited.You cant pick the map in DA and ya wont be able to pick what you want to do in TOD for the most part.You will have options sure,but youll have better options in the DA concerning plane types I would bet then what you want to do in TOD.Furballers have DA or even H2H.Strat types will have TOD.MA will be the middle road for the most part with more inclination twords furballs.Nobody,and some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee on this,NOBODY will have this game "Just the way they want it." Its just not possable to make everyone happy.Take what you can find and make it fun.If its not fun.There are other options out there.Ive flown on many a crappy night when we were gang banged...No dar all night but STILL had fun with the squad.

Steve · « **Reply #88 on:** August 08, 2003, 12:59:15 PM »

Beet1e, I'll pose the challenge again: Name someone who pads his score by vulching off the cv. Let's look at his monstrous score and discuss it.

Beet1e quote: "Got 9 kills in a CHog one sortie"

So you're basing your argument on ONE sortie? and even that was in a perk plane.

Logic: I ate one bad chip. All chips are bad.

DrDea · « **Reply #89 on:** August 08, 2003, 01:07:48 PM »

I have to partialy agree with Beetle.Ive seen plenty of times when a base didnt fall instantly,that they just vulched away at the field.When asked "Is there a goon or troops otw?" Reply was always who knows,or no,or I dont know.That and the ever present dont kill all the hangers.Cant vulch em that way.Either way,the fight at the base is not what the furballers want.Between the shore and out over the water is more there style.Making the CV have to stay further out would help this some what.It would tend to keep the fight going a bit longer.It still comes down to defence.If people dont want to take the time to defend then there going to lose objects.