Author Topic: Was it a good thing that the U.S. Gov't tried to prevent communism from spreading? (Read 1711 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #45 on:** August 27, 2003, 10:23:14 PM »

I had 80 years to work. It didnt worrk anywhere, not once, not for one second. It was a crime from the start, nothing but a scheme to steal power and murder. Name one communist country where that did not happend. Even china is now a capitalist leaning society, its the only way the communist party is still in power. So even his grand example of a succesful communist country has admitted defeat.

But kes how bout you just let him defend doing nothing in opposition to the communist invasion of south korea...

THERE IS NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING GOOD ABOUT IT.

He is being Idiotic.

My point is some ideas are simply idiotic, no matter what... His is one of them.

kesolei · « **Reply #46 on:** August 27, 2003, 10:29:59 PM »

I'll let him defend that, Grun.. but I still think that you're being amazingly rude to say that something someone thinks is 'Simply idiotic!' Just one of those... manners things your mom might have wanted to teach you about? Polite debate tends to work better, where you're open to others opinions.. he /may/ have a good point when he defends his idea. But by saying what he thinks is simply idiotic, where's the invitiation to defend reasonably?

Sorry if I'm being out of place by trying to, I dunno.. keep things polite.

(And as for what I said before- just the what if stuff, that's all it is. All logic points to the downfall of communism and it being a bad thing, I understand that and am personally glad we didn't leave things be. But on the other hand, I don't have to think what we did was the absolute right thing. By stopping communism then and not letting it play itself out, we may have sold ourselves short on something even better than what we have now. Who knows!)

kesolei · « **Reply #47 on:** August 27, 2003, 10:33:15 PM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
BTW How do you view this statement?

All nigerrs should die!

My point is some ideas are simply idiotic, no matter what... His is one of them.

You added that after I responded- And I'll tell you what I think.

You're entitled to your own opinion. I don't agree with it, but for all I know you grew up in a town where you were a white minority and had african americans beat the crap out of you every day. You'd have a valid reason to think what you do that I couldn't really argue with. Don't like it, don't agree.. but I don't think its simply idiotic. No idea, or thought, is ever simply idiotic. If the person had the guts to say what they think, you might as well respect it.

And that's all I'm saying on this.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #48 on:** August 27, 2003, 10:43:57 PM »

So you dont think that idea is idiotic? Are you a racist?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #49 on:** August 27, 2003, 10:46:38 PM »

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Originally posted by kesolei
You'd have a valid reason to think what you do that I couldn't really argue with. Don't like it, don't agree.. but I don't think its simply idiotic. No idea, or thought, is ever simply idiotic. If the person had the guts to say what they think, you might as well respect it.

And that's all I'm saying on this.

Heres another one for you to consider, perhaps this will hit closer to home...

Only a woman could say such a stupid thing...

Kes some ideas are simply wrong and idiotic, thats my point..

Snork · « **Reply #50 on:** August 27, 2003, 11:04:34 PM »

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Originally posted by Preon1
OOH!!! I see this turning into a "We spent tons of years and dollars promoting democracy over communism so lets spend tons of years and dollars promoting democracy over radical religious fundamentalism!" thread.

Actually, I agree with that statement

Right on! Shall we start with that idiot judge in Alabama?

NUKE · « **Reply #51 on:** August 28, 2003, 12:33:21 AM »

where is Boroda when you need him? He is a true source of truth and can set us all straight on this matter for sure!

SaburoS · « **Reply #52 on:** August 28, 2003, 12:47:52 AM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
This is like asking was it right to oppose the axis in WW2...

There is no possible answer except for yes.

SaburoS you must be one of the most misinformed people in the world. If the USA and west didnt oppose communism there would have been no west berlin - stalins blocade in 48 would have taken care of that, there would have been no Taiwan - an economic powerhouse providing high standard of living to her citizens and hi tech innovations overseas, same for south korea - the communists would have taken care of those. Then of course lets look at the lives of soviet citizens. With no western counterbalance and opposition communism would have spread its wonderful humane policies to hundreds of millions even billions more people, they would get to know the love of the KGB and no freedom. Eventually, feeling free to act with no consequences they would start a general world war to take everyhing. Remember the goal of communsm ever since lenin was always world revolution - meaning communist world domination. And you argue not opposing then would have been better for world relations. Simply idiotic!

So how many innocent people have been killed in the fight against the so called communism threat (El Salvador, Honduras, Guatamala, Nicaragua, Vietnam, etc. just to name a few)?
There's been blood spilt on both sides in this "War against Communism."
We seem to be tolerating communist China fine, and you know what? We aren't at war with them. If the Chinese people feel they no longer want a communist govt, they can overthrow it.
Fact is the United States has always needed a scapegoat of an enemy throughout its history.
The native indians. The British and French. The Spanish. The Mexicans. The Communists. The drug cartels. Sadaam. Some Muslims. Al Quaida.
We're just not happy and "complete" without having an enemy to hate.
Wonder who our next "great enemy" is going to be?
Why do we still have an economic blockade of Cuba? Seems we are so scared of their actually succeeding that we need to use our resources to try and make it fail.
LOL., you think that because a country is communist that all of a sudden they get along with all other communist countries? Vietnam and China (for example) has been having border disputes for how long now?
Doesn't matter the ideology of the countries involved.
The Soviet Union didn't have the resources to take over all of Europe.
We never use propaganda?
You think that peoples of sovereign nations would just allow them to take over their country without a fight?

It isn't the invading that's hard but the occupying. We learned that in Nicaragua in the early '30s, Vietnam in the 60's-70's, now Iraq. The Soviets learned in Afghanistan in the early '80's.
Bottom line is that if a regime is bad enough to its own people, the people will revolt and replace it with a system they want.
Were some of the leadership in the Soviet govt corrupt?
How about some of our leadership here in the US?
It's a much bigger and deeper issue.

Bottom line is I feel the trillions of dollars spent in our cold war could have been used to much greater benefit for the world in general and especially our own US citizens.

LOL, seems you have trouble arguing without throwing labels around---how typical of you. Am I offended? Not at all. It would actually be shocking to me to see you not throw labels around in arguing your side. I guess you feel your argument can't stand on its own merits without the added insult here and there. By all means carry on

SaburoS · « **Reply #53 on:** August 28, 2003, 12:51:09 AM »

BTW, never said that a totalitarian communist govt was a good thing. If we humans were ants it would work, but it goes counter to our human nature to succeed and excel. Generalizing of coarse.

NUKE · « **Reply #54 on:** August 28, 2003, 01:14:27 AM »

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Bottom line is that if a regime is bad enough to its own people, the people will revolt and replace it with a system they want.

LOLOLOL! tell that to the people slaughtered in Tianamen Square.

Manedew · « **Reply #55 on:** August 28, 2003, 02:44:37 AM »

BECAUSE SOME OF YOU APRENTLY CAN"T READ I'LL TYPE IN CAPS........

COMMUNISIM IS NOT STALINISM OR A DEPOTISM .... WHAT THE SOVIETS MADE HAD VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH MARX IN TH END. MANY OF YOU STILL CALL IT COMMUNISM WHILE ADMITING IT WAS DICTATORSHIP.

TRUELY A PALE IMITAITON OF THE VISION; MOSTLY FOR PROPOGANDA..... THE VISION MAY BE FLAWED ... BUT DO NOT CONFUSE IT WITH THE "COLD WAR" USSR; 'CAUSE THAT AIN'T COMMUNISM IN THE 'TRUE' SENSE.

oh ya and if you want a nice responsobility/guilt trip .... UN sanctions resulted in some half million Iraqi children dieing in the last ten years. Wonder why they got bombed?

SaburoS · « **Reply #56 on:** August 28, 2003, 02:46:09 AM »

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Originally posted by NUKE
LOLOLOL! tell that to the people slaughtered in Tianamen Square.

How about the Nicaraguans that deposed Somoza, Philipinos that deposed Marcos, Iranians that deposed the Shah, Cubans that deposed Batista supported dictators, and of course, the Americans that kicked out the British govt.
When a majority of the Chinese people want to overthrow their present govt, they will.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #57 on:** August 28, 2003, 03:11:35 AM »

Mane I'm tired of that excuse for the incessant failire of communism - every time it was tried no matter what the basic movement was it ended up as dicatorship or oligarchy. And it always will, the second you try to make all people "equal" you will need people to enforvce and administer that "equality." These people will have to keep down those who are ambitious work harder thus "cheat", also they will have administrative jobs of great responsibility and power and they will naturaly begin to abuse that power as they have always done.

But for the sake of arguing tell us all how your "true" communism would work in the real world.

SaburoS i sure would have been nice to spend those billions on other things but nuclear weapons and generally keep thew demobilization after ww2, but nobody really told the communists that at the end of ww2. I suppose ypu wanted unilatteral disarmament by the USA while russians and their buddies ran amock in the world..

Boroda · « **Reply #58 on:** August 28, 2003, 05:02:16 AM »

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Originally posted by Westy
We'd all live happily in Oceania guided by our beloved Premier Mr Bush. Anyone who could not toe the line in our People's Utopia would be sent to the front lines fo the fight against Eurasia or Eastasia.

The funniest thing is that Orwell wrote "1984" about his vision if Western society.

Another thing is that maaany people mention "1984" talking to me, but fail to reognize this brilliant book when I quote it...

Boroda · « **Reply #59 on:** August 28, 2003, 05:07:21 AM »

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Originally posted by Manedew
it's spelled moot....

and be sure you don't confuse "Comunisim" with "Stalinism" huge diffrance.... Problem is extremiteis ... why can't we have a happy mix of social democracy; If the coutries that tried communisim didn't go all out, they might have had better luck ... (or if US sanctions didn't stifle them)

Total capitalism is a bad thing too .... did someone say strip mine? Hope you see what i mean about extreamties..

Any political system has it's pros and cons.

I'll better substitute "communism" here with "bolshevism", not "stalinism". Stalinism was probably the most effective and sane implementation of Comminist ideology. Compare what Stalin have done to Trotsky's ideas or to what Mao have done to China, or Pol Pot to Cambodia...