Author Topic: ROOKS, this is not the way to go  (Read 2304 times)

Offline NoBaddy

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2003, 12:32:14 AM »
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Originally posted by Grizzly
I have one more comment, mostly in response to NoBaddy. Yes, the Main Arena is there for open game play and chaos is expected. There are other venues for realistic play. But the MA arena is also there for practice and honing of skills. This means we should promote fighting, ACM, strat and team work. Unfortunately, the present situation promotes conflict avoidal and massive land grab by the most effective means available (which isn't fighting). It deprives players of their learning opportunities and does nothing to stimulate their taste for the more realistic opportunities.


Grizz...

I can't (and don't) disagree. However, this is what the Great Unwashed want. Not sayin' I like it. Not sayin' I agree with it (in point of fact...I liked it better before it became so affordable :)). Just sayin' it is what the majority of the customers want.
NoBaddy (NB)

Flying since before there was virtual durt!!
"Ego is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity."

Offline beet1e

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2003, 02:50:25 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
Jeez, Beet, do you read what you write?
Yes, but it seems that you don't - read what I write. Otherwise you wouldn't keep raising the same old BS points, post after post after post.
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First you tell us that close fields are bad for slow climbing B&Z not-very-manoeuvrable planes right after you tell us just to take off from one field back. Duh?
And you (the furball collective) chastise me for flying my 109G10 "monsterplane" when you (the furball collective and you personally) jump into P51Ds to overcome the fuel shortage, thus ignoring your own advice to take of from one field further back! I don't have a problem with you doing that, but Lazs and NP have in the past had issue with my 109G10. But like you, NP flies the P51D and Lazs flies the Yak9U. Uberity - when it suits.
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Then you're afraid of cherry pickers that will up from fields right next door but, obviously, if they're right next door they won't get very high. Are you just afraid of anyone above you or what?
They may not be very high, but they'll probably be higher than me. P47 v. LA7 at 8K? Forget that. Besides, the point I was also trying to make is that it's not just at take off that the problem arises. You can fly to the target field and fight at 10K, but such is the nature of the MA/children's maps that the opposition will send in reinforcements from next door and they will arrive at 20K for some aerial vulching/cherrypicking. Sorry you missed that point. You see on the pizza map, with adequate spacing of fields, that's less of an option for the cherrypick dweebs, what with attention span deficit syndrome. After 6 minutes of flying, they've forgotten why they took off...
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If fuel porkage makes a large portion of the planeset unviable, yeah, I think it should be changed.
I sure go through a lot of brown ink when I answer your posts. :rolleyes: Admittedly, there is not much defence against a suicide fuel porker. But it's the suiciding element of that strategy that should be addressed, not the fuel porkage. Lamenting the fact that fuel porkage makes a large portion of the planeset unviable is like lamenting the fact that 20mm cannon will make elevators/stabs/wings unviable on a large proportion of the planeset. Well of course it will! That's the whole freaking idea. :rolleyes:
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Maybe you can dream up some other type of strat target that affects your basetaking, steamroller, suicide auger march to glory "strategy". Then you can bomb that and inhibit what needs inhibiting... the steamroller suicide march.
Now I know you don't read what I write. Or at least it doesn't sink in. Still, at your age, the knowledge sponge is getting full. :D Now Mr. Toad, you KNOW that steamrollering and suicide augering is not my game at all. But you have difficulty understanding that "strat" does not rely on such dweebish gameplay elements. The only targets I bomb are the VH, and maybe the town if I have spare bombs - VH already down. Try to recompartmentalise your mind. Then put strat in one compartment, and suicide pork-n-auger in a different compartment. Neither is syonymous with the other, a concept that seems to defeat you.
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Now, do tell me what this "meaningful strat" is. Please give examples. Do you actually have any useful ideas to gain your goal?
Right now, we have field capture which, as a gameplay goal, generates a lot of combat. Planes fly in to try to kill the town and land troops - opposition ups planes to defend against it. Quite a simple concept really. It's not much, and I had really hoped that the mission arena concept would have been introduced last December with 1.11. We'll have to wait and see what that offers. Unfortunately, we have bardar. Now bardar may have been useful in the embryonic stages of this game as a means of helping players to find fights, but with a subscribership that has mushroomed in the past one or two years, it hardly seems necessary to have bardar. Thus sneak attacks rarely succeed. The whole bardar/flashing-map/"base under attack" warning system appears to have been designed to create a "blood-n-guts" style of gameplay. That, combined with the missun editor and the children's maps has made gameplay intolerable, especially with more than about 150 people online. I don't care for that, and usually log off.

You like your furball futility - fights for their own sake. If that floats your boat, I'm happy for you. For me, it would be like a chessboard without Kings. I like being able to capture fields.

You have your gameplay style, and I have mine. The two are not mutually exclusive. So why are we arguing?

Offline lazs2

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2003, 08:25:17 AM »
grimm... moving fields closer together increases choice and gives slower planes a better chance.   it doesn't affect the strat girls or score girls at all.  

strat targets... strat targets are ok... not for me but some people like to feel others need em and like em... but... if you are gonna have strat targets then make em fair... the amount of skill required (not patience) should be somewhat equal to the effect you have... in other words... you shouldn't be able to affect dozens of players in one shot by flying with a mouse.

with far fields for instance... one is forced to either base defence (wait around or be vultched)..  or to be caught a sector or so behind enemyt lines in a plane that cannot escape the 5 B&Z heroes that will latch onto you in single minded frenzy...   u will take a pee 51 next time or just log off....

if a "strat" element is to cut fuel by % then it is obviously simply a strat element that forces pee 51 usage..   25% fuel for a 51 is more fuel than most early war squadrons could carry... so... you are not killing fuel so much as killing early war usage....

what strat in the current game penalizes late war planes and B&Z girls in their g10s playing the timid game?   The strat is broken... uneven.

simply moving the fields closer together alieviates a lot of the unbalance.   more choice and usefulness for the early war planes without hurting anyone else.
lazs

Offline Hornet

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2003, 06:33:08 PM »
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I like being able to capture fields.


Field capture is probably the single most arcadish aspect of AH today. Airpower doesn't take territory. The gameplay idea was just mocked up a decade ago as a quick fix for "strat" -- the fact that it lasted this long before really showing its age is amazing.
Hornet

Offline sax

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2003, 06:56:38 PM »
Other than fuel porking and moving the fields closer I hope the game stays basically the same.

Some of the thrill of flying low is trying to kill B&Zers.

I also agree with Toad that the DA has no appeal beacause it is just flat ground , boring.
And I've never heard Toad try and force any plane or style of fighting on any player.

Beetle your still peeing into the wind :)

Offline palef

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2003, 09:18:20 PM »
You're all whiners.

If I can't whine about kill stealing, you lot can't whine about this, capiche?

palef
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Offline beet1e

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2003, 03:37:18 AM »
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Originally posted by Hornet
Field capture is probably the single most arcadish aspect of AH today. Airpower doesn't take territory. The gameplay idea was just mocked up a decade ago as a quick fix for "strat" -- the fact that it lasted this long before really showing its age is amazing.
That's exactly why I so eagerly await AH2/TOD, and why I was hugely disappointed when the mission arena concept was not introduced with 1.11.

Offline beet1e

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2004, 07:35:04 AM »

Offline Crashy

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2004, 09:08:15 AM »
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
In point of fact, that is what the MA is supposed to be about. The realistic gameplay is supposed to be in the CT, senerios, etc..


Exactly the way I see it, it always has been (AW, WB, and AH).
I've just returned to the game after being gone about 4yrs.

Started in AW back '93, moved to WB's then here to AH went it first started. Over 10yrs the same arguements still going on about the Main Arena :)

HO's, vulching, gangbanging, hordes...etc. hehe feels like I never left.

Scenarios are where it's at. Everything else is practice for the next one. The Friday night Squad ops sound interesting too.

(btw good to see you still around NB, think we met at one of the AW cons back around '94 or '95)


doh! got me on the ole resurrected thread trick :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2004, 09:10:17 AM by Crashy »

Offline TalonX

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2004, 11:02:38 AM »
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Originally posted by Midnight
Because people would rather vulch and game their score than fight against the country with the most people on. It's pretty lame.

Then again, this behavior is a product of the game we have. No strat to worry about, no death penalties to hinder nonsense flying, field AA too easy to kill and simple point and shoot kills achievable by any cannon-armed aircraft when shooting planes on the ground.

Until there is something other than points and kill messages to play for, the outnumbered country will always take a gangbanging. It doesn't seem to matter who gets the perks either, I think people just like to see the map reset so they can start off fresh with more free undefended bases to milk-run.



MY VERY POINT!    As a matter of rule, if you get killed you should have to wait to re-up (say 6 minutes)...if you bail/ditch, you wait 3 minutes...a runway landing means you can re-up ASAP.
-TalonX

Forgotten, but back in the game.  :)

Offline Fruda

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ROOKS, this is not the way to go
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2004, 11:38:15 AM »
I've been complaining about this a lot, Mand, and while some people agree with me, most laugh (?).

Things would be a whole lot better if we were coordinated, and people actually did missions. And things would be a whole lot better if we stopped vulching Knight airfields when we need to take some Bish fields.