Zero Sum

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by AKIron
I think MT is a god!

[gofaster]

I'm waiting for the Whigs and Torries to come back into power.

[Wanker]

I think I'm just going to give up and have Lazs take me gun shopping.

[popeye]

A couple of interesting books that illustrate the problem:

_The Best Democracy Money Can Buy_, by Greg Palast; and  _Thieves in High Places_, by Jim Hightower.  Both are fun reads.

Also, _Wealth and Democracy_, by Kevin Phillips.  A bit more academic treatment of the issue.

[Rude]

Originally posted by AKIron
I'm sure you guys are responsible for the delay of AH2. I haven't figured out how you did it yet but I 'm watching ya.

Toad did it!

[lazs2]

toad... I do what a lot of people do... I pick one or two issues that I care about and then pick the party that is less likely to take those things away from me.

All parties are about taking stuff away from you so that they can have it or... no one can have it.  

If any libertarian ever had a chance I would vote for him.... as it is... I vote against democrats so that less I care about is taken from me.
lazs

[miko2d]

lazs2: If any libertarian ever had a chance I would vote for him.... as it is... I vote against democrats so that less I care about is taken from me.

 We must vote for Bush, even if we had to hold our nose. The alternative is unthinkable! The Democrats might get in! Then we would have abortion, gay rights, affirmative action, judicial tyranny, socialized medicine, federalised education, protectionist tariffs, needless foreign war, massive spending, deficits, and debt! Save what is left of America! Vote Republican! Yeah, right...

 The hard-core libertarian thinking is "do not vote, it only encourages them".

 The pragmatic libertarian thinking is to vote for anything that would disrupt the state machine and reduce its efficiency. If the Congress and Senate stay republican, I am voting for Hillary. If elected, she would not be allowed to implement as much socialism as Bush would.

 miko

[Wanker]

The pragmatic libertarian thinking is to vote for anything that would disrupt the state machine and reduce its efficiency.

Sounds to me like anarchism, Miko. No thanks. The only thing worse than a person who believes in the wrong thing is a person who believes in nothing.

[Lance]

Our best governments are zero-sum.  Power is split between the parties, so neither side's lunatic fringe are able to push their agenda.  Its when one side or the other gets dominant within the government that things start going to ****.

[miko2d]

banana: Sounds to me like anarchism, Miko. No thanks. The only thing worse than a person who believes in the wrong thing is a person who believes in nothing.

 Nice example of  twisting people's statements complelety opposite to what's being said.

 Are you discouraging the holy system of "Checks and Balances" and promoting tyrany, while slandering me as an anarchist  (not that I expect you to know what an anarchist is) for upholding the principles on which this country was based?

 How come when you vote for, say, a democrat in order to disrupt a smooth working of republican machine, you are not an anarchist while if I vote the same democrat, I am a nihilist and anarchist?

 Just because you love Hillary and I vote for her as a lesser evil, not liking any of the choices currently available to me, I somehow "believe in nothing"? Don't you even realise that there are more things in the world than Bush or Hillary to believe in?

 You are just too ignorant of the other options than the two major parties indistinguisheable policies.

 What I believe in would take you years of study to learn in an outline, if you cared to expand your horisons rather than pretend it's "nothing".
 The civilisation we achieved was not built by socialist governments, no matter what your government propaganda sold as education said.

 miko

[Toad]

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

[midnight Target]

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

[lazs2]

Miko... you are thinking much too grandly...  I don't think in those terms... I think on a smaller more personal scale... democrats will take my guns and cars away from me and make me wear seatbelts and helmets and such.   They will tax my money when I die.    Libertarians are more in line with my thinking but they don't have a chance in hell of getting elected to anything.

Hillary will get more of my personal freedoms taken away.   I simply want to make sure that more of the people who fear me are elected.

If gay rights were a huge thing with me or abortion whatever I would vote on those issues.

lazs

[miko2d]

lazs2: democrats will take my guns and cars away from me and make me wear seatbelts and helmets and such. They will tax my money when I die.

 So will republicans. Especially if the president and the Congress are the same party.

 miko

[lazs2]

No... this is not the case... at least not in the 30 or so years I have been following it.   Voting records on gun control are a mattter of public record.   If you allow dems in you will get more gun control from those women.
lazs