Author Topic: A Whine has been recorded...  (Read 3733 times)

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #120 on: October 09, 2003, 07:48:07 AM »
Toad-

Shane pointed this out and I wondered if you could comment on it..

If perking does not work to limit aircraft in the arena, why is the C-Hog no longer the most common choice in the MA since it was perked?

Offline Shane

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« Reply #121 on: October 09, 2003, 07:56:36 AM »
nothing wrong with the chog, per se, but when it was people's preferred clueless slobberdonkey HO ride of choice it eventually wasn't cost effective.  diminishing returns, anyone? hogs are definitely not as much  a "no-skill" ride as the other big 5 "are," are they?

the point i'm making beet1e is that even slightly perking the 5 won't reduce their nbrs and provide the diversity you're hoping for, especially by people who already have enough perkies to fly them ad infinitum.

what you basically want is a vast pool of noobs tooling around in  planes inferior to the one you can afford to club them over the head with. that and the ability to run home with your precious mad skillz killz without having to worry about being chased down and spanked by someone who probably has one clue less than yourself.

better to ask this beet1e, when was the last time you flew an early/mid-war plane? your personal "big 5" are all '44+ planes. and actually it's the tiffy, not the yak9u that rounds out the big 5.

http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/careerstats.php?player=beet1e&sortby=killsin_sort
« Last Edit: October 09, 2003, 08:04:13 AM by Shane »
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Offline thrila

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« Reply #122 on: October 09, 2003, 07:58:40 AM »
I like kweassa's perk idea, less planes can run from me when i'm in a spit IX.:D

So please...perk away guys.:D
"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline Toad

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« Reply #123 on: October 09, 2003, 08:07:23 AM »
Muck,

If you go back and actually read the various C-hog threads, you'll find the "easy mode killer" argument figures highly in it. As in, "it's so easy to kill in that it has 20% of all kills".

Nothing wrong with flying it in my book, btw.

However, for a person that continually rails against "easymode" planes, flying it is pretty humorous in a hypocritical sort of way. I think that's what Shane's pointing out.

Your quite right. I have thousands of perks that I will never use. About a month ago, I got a phone call while playing that I had to take. Got shot down, of course. So I upped Spit XIV's and Me-262's as the field was being vultched. Didn't try to take off, just let the vultchers come. Now I got killed more than I killed, but it was a true hoot getting all those prox kills as the slavering hordes dove at full speed, killshootering each other to get the sacred perk plane and the resultant perkies. Blew about 2500 perks during that call... money well spent, I'd say. Best use of perks I've found so far.

Kewassa's "fly like I say to fly" idea? Nah? Like I said, if you want those things, they're already here in AH or will be shortly in TOD. No need to FORCE someone out of a plane they want to fly for lack of perks.

Oboe's simple ENY idea has far greater merit than K's if diversity is truly what you seek. It doesn't force anyone to do anything. Hallmark of a reasonable solution, IMO.

Of course, diversity may not be what is actually sought. :D And I don't see the "diversity" guys jumping on Oboe's simple ENY idea, so... draw your own conclusions.

As for perking/limiting, I don't think you'll ever find a place where I've said perking won't limit a planes use. In fact, I've agreed with that.

What I disagree with is "limiting". As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't even HAVE a perk system. Fly what you want to fly. I'll react accordingly in the plane I am flying.

I see no need to limit the "Big 5". I fly them now and again, but mostly I'm in the older, "lesser" planes. Yeah, I even fly the P-40B now and again.

But Spits don't terrify me and I like killing them as much as killing anything else. If a Spit jumps me while in a P-40B, I'll probably get killed. But that doesn't send me into depression, especially if I give him a good fight.

I simply don't understand the need for other people to try and dictate what another paying customer chooses to fly. It's as simple as minding your own knitting.

And, as I pointed out, there are other AH arenas going nightly where you won't see the Big 5 at ALL. So, if that's what you so desire, why don't you take advantage of those?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline thrila

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« Reply #124 on: October 09, 2003, 08:21:11 AM »
just remember guys....Spits don't kill people, people kill people.
"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline Rutilant

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« Reply #125 on: October 09, 2003, 09:00:14 AM »
(Cue inspiring background music)

Guess poor Toady Woady throws a fit when someone talks about perking late war easymode rides, but it's alright for him to bash other's rides that they PAY for in perks, i.e. they arent given to em for free time and time again to go HO the next red thing in sight.. What's so hard to understand the "earned" part of it?

For a slightly exaggerated example, you can't really call everyone that you see ina  262 a no-skill later war easy-moder, because you know that they earned thier 200 perks for it, and if someone flies thier chog, f4u4, spit14 or whatever consistantly, you can be pretty certain they earn all of them perks on a regular basis...


Offline beet1e

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« Reply #126 on: October 09, 2003, 09:02:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shane
better to ask this beet1e, when was the last time you flew an early/mid-war plane? your personal "big 5" are all '44+ planes. and actually it's the tiffy, not the yak9u that rounds out the big 5.
 
Not a fair question, Shane, as Aces High is geared towards late war planes. For example, if you want to fly a P38, there's no F or J variant; you have to fly the late war L variant. And as I have said repeatedly, one needs to fly a plane that can survive against a Big Five plane when you encounter one. But since you ask, I have been flying the Bf109F4 quite a bit beginning tour 43. I did OK (I think - 30/4) and that's a plane from 1940. Also the 190A5 (1942? AH doesn't give dates for all planes) and 109G2.
Quote
the point i'm making beet1e is that even slightly perking the 5 won't reduce their nbrs and provide the diversity you're hoping for, especially by people who already have enough perkies to fly them ad infinitum.
I agree that if perking one type of plane (F4U-1C you tell me), the folks who want a free ride will find another one.
Quote
what you basically want is a vast pool of noobs tooling around in planes inferior to the one you can afford to club them over the head with. that and the ability to run home with your precious mad skillz killz without having to worry about being chased down and spanked by someone who probably has one clue less than yourself.
If that statement had a grain of truth to it, I'd fly the Big Five myself. But that's your department! I see that you get most of your kills in P51/LA7. Spit ix is also one of your favourite rides too! Well, that does at least explain why you got the arse about my remarks in this thread. Who would have thought it! Mr. SuperAce flies easymode planes! :lol

Now, I have addressed your comments, and answered your question - despite the fact that I asked you first. Perhaps NOW you would like to enlighten the assembled company still further with your knowledge. Question for Shane: When did Beet1e last fly a P51/LA7/Spit ix/N1K/TYPH? Just answer that, Mr. Shane, and then we'll talk again.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #127 on: October 09, 2003, 09:10:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
However, for a person that continually rails against "easymode" planes, flying it [the F4U-1C] is pretty humorous in a hypocritical sort of way. I think that's what Shane's pointing out.
I would have thought it was popular because of its very powerful guns, but not because it's easy to fly, because it isn't.  It rolls well, but doesn't turn very well and is thus disqualified as a dweeb ride of choice.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #128 on: October 09, 2003, 09:15:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
I would have thought it was popular because of its very powerful guns, but not because it's easy to fly, because it isn't.  It rolls well, but doesn't turn very well and is thus disqualified as a dweeb ride of choice.


Amazing guns, virtually unparalleled ground attack capabilities, the ability to take off from normal bases as well as carriers, nice medium to high speed handling, a great roll rate, 800 rounds of 20mm ammo, tough as nails, and it's relatively faster than "dweeb rides of choice" that turn better.

The F4U-1C is the most well-rounded plane in the game, bar none.  To pretend otherwise is to delude yourself.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline beet1e

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while we're waiting for shane...
« Reply #129 on: October 09, 2003, 09:22:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Amazing guns, virtually unparalleled ground attack capabilities, the ability to take off from normal bases as well as carriers, nice medium to high speed handling, a great roll rate, 800 rounds of 20mm ammo, tough as nails, and it's relatively faster than "dweeb rides of choice" that turn better.

The F4U-1C is the most well-rounded plane in the game, bar none.  To pretend otherwise is to delude yourself.

-- Todd/Leviathn
I agree, DMF. I love my CHog. The reasons you give are all the reasons I fly it. :)  I pay for it, and it's worth the expense. If it's as good a plane as you and I know it to be, why don't more people earn the PP to fly it? Could it be that it was deserted by the pork-n-auger masses?

 All I said was that it's not an easy one to fly, where "easy" is a relative term. The noobs/HO dweebs like planes that can turn well so they can force their HO shots. I don't think the CHog would be good at that - not that I've ever tried.

Offline Dead Man Flying

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Re: while we're waiting for shane...
« Reply #130 on: October 09, 2003, 09:28:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
I agree, DMF. I love my CHog. The reasons you give are all the reasons I fly it. :)  I pay for it, and it's worth the expense. If it's as good a plane as you and I know it to be, why don't more people earn the PP to fly it? Could it be that it was deserted by the pork-n-auger masses?
[/B]

Once you attribute perk points to something, even if just a handful like with the F4U-1C, people begin to fly it differently.  Survival and preservation of the perk points spent tend to take over.  That and you must consider that the sorts of people who pork and auger routinely probably don't rack up perk points very quickly anyway.

Quote
All I said was that it's not an easy one to fly, where "easy" is a relative term. The noobs/HO dweebs like planes that can turn well so they can force their HO shots. I don't think the CHog would be good at that - not that I've ever tried.


Back in the day, the CHog was the absolute best HO plane in the game for obvious reasons.  Torque was the master of whipping the plane around using its excellent instant turn in order to force an unavoidable HO.  With 800 rounds of 20mm, you can just kick the rudders and twist the stick in a circle to create a nice spray of death in a cone spanning 30 degrees out from the nose in any direction.

-- Todd/Leviathn
« Last Edit: October 09, 2003, 09:38:05 AM by Dead Man Flying »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #131 on: October 09, 2003, 09:34:14 AM »
The C-hog is easy to kill with. I believe that's the basic point.

Which is essentially the same point made about the Big 5's popularity.

So rail all you like about Spit's and the other four; you're essentially flying the same class airplane.

Now go out and rack up lots of kills in the F4U-1. That'd be quite different.

After all, you want diversity and a challenge, right?

Oh...no... guess you don't. Sorry.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2003, 09:36:59 AM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #132 on: October 09, 2003, 10:21:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
The C-hog is easy to kill with. I believe that's the basic point.

Which is essentially the same point made about the Big 5's popularity.

So rail all you like about Spit's and the other four; you're essentially flying the same class airplane.

Now go out and rack up lots of kills in the F4U-1. That'd be quite different.

After all, you want diversity and a challenge, right?

Oh...no... guess you don't. Sorry.


Toad-

The difference between you and beetle is the fact that he's buying his ride.

(I've not looked up his stats...just going on what Shane posted here)

So you both fly advanced planes, but he has no problem shelling out the perks to fly his, where as you appear to be one of the most ardent opponents of perking the big 5. Meanwhile, according to this thread, your planes of choice are 3 of the big 5...also according to this thread.

It would seem you are the most ardent opponent of perking the big 5 because you have an agenda, and are not simply the aircraft freedom fighter you portend to be.

But you say you have thousands of perks so much so that you can up 262's at a capped field.... so a perk to the big 5 wont hurt you..

Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #133 on: October 09, 2003, 10:27:07 AM »
Oooooo looking up stats is both fun AND enlightening...

Shane's career...

Top 4 planes..

L-Gay-7....4739 kills...a 3.5 to 1 kill ratio
Runstang....2920 kills   a 2.01
Spit V....1276 kills 2.61 KD
Spit 9....1009 kills...2.67 kills

http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/careerstats.php?player=shane&sortby=kdratio_sort

Offline Toad

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« Reply #134 on: October 09, 2003, 10:31:19 AM »
The point is he's flying a ride just as dweeby but it's OK because it costs a few perks?

:lol

I fly advanced planes? Really? Do me a favor and check my stats for the last few or ten tours and tell me what I fly the most. I think you'll be surprised. I flew the -51 a lot when Rude mandated us as a -51 squad. Since then? You be the judge but I think you'll find your preconceptions are erroneous.

Here's my agenda:

Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies. It's a game.

That's been my agenda for about 3 years now.

Perking the "Big 5" wouldn't hurt me a lick. OTOH, it would hurt guys that don't fly much and thus don't have time to earn perks or that aren't real good at earning perks.

As I said, Oboe's ENY solution is far simpler, far more equitable to all players, preserves freedom of choice, forces no one at all and offers a "carrot" rather than a "stick" approach to solving your serious "diversity" problem.

How come I'm not seeing you and Beet and K and all the rest jump with joy and voiciferously support this elegant solution?

Englighten me.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!