Author Topic: Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)  (Read 9086 times)

Offline Badboy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1214
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« on: August 14, 2006, 05:23:47 PM »
Hi,

Following on from a message in this thread I have prepared the following training animation on the rolling scissors maneuver.



There are a couple of other good points about the rolling scissors I should have mentioned, but I did that animation in one sitting, so I will probably re-work it at some time in the near future.

Meanwhile, I hope it helps...

Many thanks to TC for permission to use his excellent film.

Badboy
The Damned (est. 1988)
  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Air Warrior Trainer - Retired

Offline Wormy1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2006, 09:07:18 PM »
I don't think I've ever had the "rolling scissors" explained quite so clearly...

I had the basic idea of -Rolling- but that was it...

Hats off to you sir  <>

thanx for the info

Wormy1

Offline Roscoroo

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8424
      • http://www.roscoroo.com/
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2006, 10:11:03 PM »
Nice film ..

now how about the "Escape from guys running with sissors " :D
Roscoroo ,
"Of course at Uncle Teds restaurant , you have the option to shoot them yourself"  Ted Nugent
(=Ghosts=Scenariroo's  Patch donation

Offline Vudak

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4819
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2006, 12:47:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Roscoroo
Nice film ..

now how about the "Escape from guys running with sissors " :D


Run through an area with exposed, brambly, roots, and be better at it then him ;)
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Vudak

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4819
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2006, 12:48:56 AM »
...  Now back to the topic at hand ... :D

Great animation, Badboy.  I'm really glad you trainers are making these things, they really should go a long way to improving everyone's time in the MA...  I can't tell you HOW LONG it took me to figure out what the heck the scissors were, and the rolling scissors, eh, forget it.  This sort of thing should really help the new guys (and there's some nice polishing tricks in there for others, as well!)

S!
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline B@tfinkV

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5751
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2006, 03:13:58 AM »
thats fantastic stuff BBoy and TC!


a more perfect and smooth version of the rolling scissors would be hard to find.




remember though, such a long 'barrel' will only be created if both pilots use similar control imputs and throttle settings in a repeated cycle.


be carefull not to enter a rolling scissors fight when the E states are not so even or you could find yourself shot down within the first 360 revolution.


to truly master the scissors, my view is that you must be able to distingiush when and where to do them, and also that using them at the start of a fight does not mean you have to keep them up untill someone loses.



like a sports manouver or play, combining many differents moves into a single encounter is essential for success, and it will be difficult to find such a long section of rolling scissors in most fights.


S! guys, great work!
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9368
Re: Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2006, 07:42:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Badboy
I have prepared the following training animation on the rolling scissors maneuver.

That was really a fantastic job, Badz.  Thank you.

- oldman

Offline Mace2004

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1528
      • TrackIR 4.0
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2006, 10:51:35 AM »
Excellent film, very well done.  If I may, let me add a couple of points regarding "technique", in other words, how do you fly a good rolling scissors and what is your reference point.  In both a rolling and flat scissors the objective is to get or remain behind your adversaries wingline forcing him to fly out in front of you.  In other words, you want slower down-range travel than he has.  The key to doing this is to keep your lift vector behind your adversary, a point called his "extended six".  This is how you ensure that your helix angle is smaller than his.  Most people just roll to put their lift vector directly on the adversary.  This is fine if you're pulling for a shot but in the rolling scissors will equalize your down-range travel and, at best, keep the fight neutral and at worst you will lose any position advantage you have.  By pulling for a position on his extended six you have the best chance of staying behind his wingline and forcing him out front.  Also, as with any vertical moves throttle control is important as too much speed across the bottom will increase your radius and cause you to arc giving your adversary an advantage.

Mace
Mace
Golden Gryphon Guild Mercenary Force G3-MF

                                                                                          

Offline Mustaine

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4139
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2006, 11:53:57 AM »
could you zip the file for me badboy?

my trusty 8MB intel graphic chip here @ work has taken 20 minutes to display what I think is about 1/2 the GIF

just can't render it here. :mad:
Genetically engineered in a lab, and raised by wolverines -- ]V[ E G A D E T ]-[
AoM DFC ZLA BMF and a bunch of other acronyms.

Offline Badboy

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1214
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2006, 01:58:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mustaine
could you zip the file for me badboy?

Yep, but even with maximum compression it won't get any smaller, the only way I can make it smaller is to use a smaller image size... So
try this file it has less than half the file size and should run faster.

Badboy
The Damned (est. 1988)
  • AH Training Corps - Retired
  • Air Warrior Trainer - Retired

Offline Mustaine

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4139
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2006, 02:21:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Badboy
Yep, but even with maximum compression it won't get any smaller, the only way I can make it smaller is to use a smaller image size... So
try this file it has less than half the file size and should run faster.

Badboy
that worked ok on this PC but i meant zip it so I could DL it and watch it @ home... I'll just leave this page up for a while and save it later is all. thanks!
Genetically engineered in a lab, and raised by wolverines -- ]V[ E G A D E T ]-[
AoM DFC ZLA BMF and a bunch of other acronyms.

Offline Simaril

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2006, 02:36:15 PM »
OK, embarassing windows question..Whether in IE or firefox, when I right click to attempt the save, I get a "save picture" option but no download source option. When I save the picture, i end up getting one frame of the film, not the film itself.

What am I doing wrong?
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

"Social Fads are for sheeple." - Meatwad

Offline Hazard69

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 748
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2006, 12:55:34 AM »
What program you using to view it with?

Its an animated gif. If you use something like MSPaint it only shows the 1st frame. I suggest you try opening it with IE or firefox.
<S> Hazardus

The loveliest thing of which one could sing, this side of the Heavenly Gates,
Is no blonde or brunette from a Hollywood set, but an escort of P38s.

Offline Schutt

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1138
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2006, 03:24:13 AM »
Nice explanations,
however it kind of confused me, now i need help.

What is about varying the diameter of the barrel, can i widen that to make the other guy "overshoot" with his scissors?

Can i try to cut the corener by pulling a ailoron roll when on the top part and staying there while the other guy does his scissors?

I always thought the goal was to be more vertical than the other guy, which looks like a flatter angle to me. Is the goal to be more horizontal (more forward movement in the role)  or is the steep angle a more vertikal role, i. e. trying to be closer to a loop than an ailoron roll?

Is it possible to "skip one revolution" as in when i have a better climbing plane i try to move my spiral higher than his and finally do a big barel going out above him?

Are there other exit strategies that can give you an advantage?

Offline Schatzi

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5729
      • http://www.slowcat.de
Rolling Scissors (Training Animation)
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2006, 04:28:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
OK, embarassing windows question..Whether in IE or firefox, when I right click to attempt the save, I get a "save picture" option but no download source option. When I save the picture, i end up getting one frame of the film, not the film itself.

What am I doing wrong?



Youre not doing anthing wrong.... it *is* a picture. Animated gif. :) So just use the "save picture" to download the file. To view it, you can use browser or Windows Picture Vieweing thingy (i dont know the name in English, the one thats automatically associated with pics (double clicking them)).
21 is only half the truth.