Perk Planes

[Wotan]

The Ar 234 has 82 kills and has been killed 167 times.

234 is the only perk bomber very hard to catch but imho reducing its perk value would not be a good idea. Bomber perks are easy to get and we only have 1 plane to spend umm on.

The F4U-1C has 5158 kills and has been killed 2456 times.

Best perk value in the game. HTC made great choice by perking this plane. Its well worth 8 perks.

The F4U-4 has 467 kills and has been killed 192 times.

I dont fly blue planes and I've only engaged 1 once in the main and I killed iy. I was in a 262 though and the guy just tried to keep hoing me. So I shoved 3cm of rheinmetal down his throat and laughed my arse off as he exploded. However the laughter soon ended when I spotted a lo ju88 dove and colided with the bastard at 600 mph.     I think its perk value is about right and its use is right inline with the ta-152 and temp.


The Ta 152H has 541 kills and has been killed 201 times.

Great perk value at 30 however its a tough plane to fly in the main if you dont keep disciplined. The perk value keeps it presence rare in the main like it should be.

The Tempest has 701 kills and has been killed 176 times.

Best plane in the main imho. Again the perk value is enough to keep it rare and by its k/d alone its perk value is justified.

The Me 262 has 1439 kills and has been killed 222 times.

Imho its too cheap I would up to 250 perks. However its use is relatively rare and it takes a little work to kill an alert fighter but 1 hit kills umm easy.

I think the perk system has shown its value in keeping rare and unbalancing planes from having too great an impact on the main.

As for the 109g10, fw190d9, p51d, and the La7 being perked. well ....

The Fw 190D-9 has 10123 kills and has been killed 5819 times.

The Bf 109G-10 has 10321 kills and has been killed 8569 times.

I personally fly both of these planes alot in the main and would have no problem paying 8 perks for them.

The P-51D has 22974 kills and has been killed 24295 times.

The La-7 has 18264 kills and has been killed 13459 times.

I almost cant believe those p51 scores because I have flown the p51 and its avery capable aircraft for the main more so then the 190d9. Must be all the newbies flying it.

The la7 however is a great plane and has a good size impact on the main but nowhere near chog status.

Again both these planes at an 8 point perk value is well within the reach of anyone.

However looking at the chog states before and after its perk its seems a more experienced type of pilot has stuck with it. While its use has dropped its k/d has climbed. No doudt that would happen with the d9, g10, p51d, and la7.

I think any arguement for them to be perked is premature at this point. There just isnt enough planes in the main as of yet to perk any more. However should the early planeset get filled out then I think perking these planes at 8 would be a great idea.

The Spitfire Mk IX has 29686 kills and has been killed 30407 times.

The N1K2 has 19225 kills and has been killed 16960 times.

The nik2 aint what she was but its still a good plane. I flew in tod last frame we went 14 and 4 against f6fs with alt. They outnumbered us 2 to 1. However under no circumstances perk it its a great plane to kill for getting perks. As much as I am dismayed at the p51d scores I cant believe the nik2 has done as well as it did. Over the past 4 or so tours I have maintained a min of 2 to 1 against it. Its easy to kill.

The spit ix however has been trumped up to "uber" status so every "fast food" killer jumps in one. I have no prob with spits 1 or 2 to 1 but throw in a third or forth it gets hairy. But its a great main plane probrably the best overall. Perk it? hell no most spit pilots like 51d pilots dunno what the hell they are doin most of the time.

But theres those few you run into that hand you your arse that makes you wonder wtf these other fools are doing.

well my .2cents......

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

[StSanta]

The Fw 190A-5 has 5870 kills and has been killed 3642 times.

PERK THE 190A5!

[Serapis]

I like your perk system Wotan, but then I like more variety, personally. I would even like to see more Tempests etc. in the MA. I would add an 8 point perk for the 51D though just to keep the scale even (better vis and 2 extra .50s). With a fuller planeset the average could be set in 1943 with light perks for 1944/45, heavy perks for late 45, and good perk earning potential for 1940-1943 era aircraft.

Charon

Bring the Martin Baltimore to Aces High!

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]

[Maverick]

Charon,

Based on the figures already presented the 51D already has less than a 1:1 ratio. Upon what do you base your request for perking it????

It has fairly weak guns (in this game) that require a prolonged burst to cause significant damage, it is a LOUSY turn fighter, poor climb rate  and hasn't been the fastest plane at any alt for some time. What is it that makes this qualify for perking?!?!?!

 

[Wotan]

i didnt say perk it out right but I was in a p51 squad. flown within its ideal envelope I dont see how its k/d is so lo.
I only assume its being used by a lot of folks who dunnae who to fly it.

Wotan has 45 kills and has been killed 11 times against the P-51D.

There no reason today to perk it. Especially since there is limited option fer p51 folks.

But if there is any hope of a more "complete" early  war plane set then what sense would it be to model early ponies if no one will fly umm. The p51b is a rare thing in the main now.

We heard the samething from chog folks who said look at its kd. there are planes faster can turn better but I think a lot of folks would agree it made the main better.

The 51 is nowhere near the "chog class" and on its own theres no need to perk. As part of a set of planes to be perked (109g10, 190d9, la7 and p51) if and when the early birds come to ah I think its fair.

Now the folks who will come in here and say "we should fly what we want" well thats irrelevant. You dont get to fly what ever you want now unless you spend perks. All that I'm saying is that if by expanding it ,as shown by the chog, we get  more diverse planes through out the entire war then I'm for it.

Right now this isnt the case.

It beats the hell of a rps. Especially because we will arguing till the cows come home about when to introduce certain planes.
Right now if you wanna a tempest you dont have to wait 28 days to get one (unless you suck and it takes 3 weeks to get 70 perks).

[air_guard]

can agree with most but the fu4-4 is overperked no doubt about it should be 30.
ta-152 20 rest i dont care about looks ok.
guess we dont need more perk planes now, let it be as it is  


airgaurd

[AKDejaVu]

Hmmmm... I haven't heard HTC say that the perk system is intended to replace or augment the RPS in any way.  To say adjusting the perk system will help avoid an RPS is a mistatement.

What will drive an RPS?  More planes.  Not because it means we can match eras more easily, but rather because the game can only handle a fixed amount of aircraft.  This has been shown in Warbirds 2.x and 3... and I believe I've heard HT say the same about HT.  I don't know if its 64 planes in one arena or 128.... but its in there somewhere.  The number is fixed.

<sarcasm>Warbirds 3 doesn't officially have a limit on how many different planes an arena can have, they simply choose to keep that number below 64 so that computers don't lock up.   </sarcasm>

The CHOG was perked because of usage.  The rest were perked because there was an understood performance advantage.  So far, no other planes currently in the MA fit into those categories.

AKDejaVu

[Eaglecz]

LA7 should be perked not for K/D but for way how those "pigs" flying LA7
90% of LA7 flying  like HO, run, turn HO, run, turn HO
5% flying like HO run run run to mama
5% are dammned good pilots in airplane whitch turn good(better that tempest) acceleration is pretty fast, top speed is one of the best, climb rate is excelent under 10k and good above, well and cannons. 2 SHVaKS or 3 DB(forgot name) 400 or more bullets...

and 50% less fuel consumption then Yak9U    

may be 5 perks ?

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: EagleC ]

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: EagleC ]

[Wotan]

i never said ht was trying to augment an rps.

I was adressing folks who would prefer one.

The rest was my opinion.

Maybe I'll reread to see if I wrote that 'cause I don't remember doing so.

[AKDejaVu]

I was adressing folks who would prefer one.

Hmmm... seems we'd need more planes before anyone gets any kind of RPS... seeing as how we don't have enough to really focus on any one era right now.

By then, we'll need an RPS anyways... or something similar.  You can't endlessly add aircraft to the MA.  At some point HTC will have to decide what is to be in there and what isn't.  The perk system will not help them out of that quandry.

And it doesn't adress the people who want an RPS either.  There are still dominant aircraft in the MA.  Many people don't like that as an option.... throttled or not.

I like the current perk system.  I see you're trying to defend it.  What I don't believe is that it actually resolves much of what you suggest it does.  I only believe it keeps aircraft from overunning the MA.  They are all still dominant.

AKDejaVu

[Wotan]

 But if there is any hope of a more "complete" early war plane set then what sense would it be to model early ponies if no one will fly umm. The p51b is a rare thing in the main now.

 

I think any arguement for them to be perked is premature at this point. There just isnt enough planes in the main as of yet to perk any more. However should the early planeset get filled out then I think perking these planes at 8 would be a great idea.

I must be missing something in each one of my posts where I have stated my position I have also said that we have to few planes currently for either a wb type rps or a perk based rps.

   

Hmmm... seems we'd need more planes before anyone gets any kind of RPS... seeing as how we don't have enough to really focus on any one era right now.

I was not aware that ht had said the arena was limited to 64(128) planes (I assume you mean types of aircraft). That being the case either we will end up with an rps of some sort or seperate arenas.

As for liking the perk system now I do believe its kept the arena from being over run by dominant aircraft but it also (152) has kept aircraft that were rare some what so.

What ever the future brings the current perk system was a good idea.

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]

[AKDejaVu]

I must be missing something in each one of my posts where I have stated my position I have also said that we have to few planes currently for either a wb type rps or a perk based rps

You are definately missing something very obvious.  How many more planes do you think the arena can handle right now?  It is currently at 57(58?).  "More filled out" means exceding the max number of different aircraft in the MA.  That means RPS regardless.  The point is moot.

If we had an endless supply of aircraft in the MA.. you'd have a point to an extent.  We are not going anywhere near that so it doesn't really matter.  And, once again, it does not adress the fact that there will STILL be dominating planes in the MA (most wanting an RPS hate the idea of this).

 

As for liking the perk system now I do believe its kept the arena from being over run by dominant aircraft but it also (152) has kept aircraft that were rare some what so.

The 152 is dominating in its own area.  If you've encountered a P-51D over 30k you'd know this for sure... as would the hapless pony driver.  Its potential for destruction just doesn't fit in well with the current MA.  Though, I do believe that if it were unperked, things would go very wrong very fast on the LW side of the house.

And...  once again... the fatal flaw of the perk system is that it doesn't pit perk vs perk.  It pits perk vs much lesser plane. That is the main complaint of RPS supporters.  I can see their point.  The fact that it doesn't happen often simply makes it tollerable.

AKDejaVu

[Zippatuh]

Granted I am seeing some of the same aircraft a lot but for the most part I think there is more diversity in aircraft these days in the MA.  It surprised me that the P38 was in my top 5 most killed aircraft.  I hadn’t seen that before.

As far as perks go I’m a cheap bastard anyway and don’t wanna pay a dime for any of them.  The only perk that I don’t like is the F4U-4.  I think this aircraft is greatly overpriced.  In my opinion it is only slightly better than the P51D.  Hell even the C-hog can arguably be stated as a better aircraft for the firepower alone.  I saw a response that it should be placed around 30, actually, I think it should probably be more around 20, maybe even 15, if not even 10.

As far as the K/D of the P51D it most definitely has to do with new flyers and/or inexperience in the bird.  It is a very capable killer of just about anything when flown properly.  No I do not want it perked.  If we are comparing birds though, to have the F4U-4 perked at 60 and the P51D at nothing is a huge discrepancy for very little difference in performance.

Actually if you take the P51D, LA7, 109G10, 190D9 and leave them un-perked having the F4U-4 out there with the Tempest is an error in my opinion.  It should be at least cheap and more affordable.  As for the 262, my experience has been as long as your keeping an eye out the damn thing is too fast and cant turn for watermelon to be able to get a decent gun solution.  Should it be more expensive?  I really don’t have an opinion on it.  Seems fine the way it is now.

Zippatuh

[Wotan]

quote:
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I must be missing something in each one of my posts where I have stated my position I have also said that we have to few planes currently for either a wb type rps or a perk based rps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are definately missing something very obvious. How many more planes do you think the arena can handle right now? It is currently at 57(58?). "More filled out" means exceding the max number of different aircraft in the MA. That means RPS regardless. The point is moot.

what im missing why you kept over looking what I've said to suit your own point.

I've said from the begginning that we dont have enough planes.

But you begin a post


 

Hmmm... seems we'd need more planes before anyone gets any kind of RPS... seeing as how we don't have enough to really focus on any one era right now.  

you also say

 

Hmmmm... I haven't heard HTC say that the perk system is intended to replace or augment the RPS in any way. To say adjusting the perk system will help avoid an RPS is a mistatement.

Which has nothing to with me stating my opinion. I read numerous threads where the perk vrs rps was discussed on this board. Even Fdski's idea of a rolling perk set.

Not once have I read where HT has said that there a limit be it 64 128 or 256 on the number of aircraft available to one arena.

but besides that I also said

 

I was not aware that ht had said the arena was limited to 64(128) planes (I assume you mean types of aircraft). That being the case either we will end up with an rps of some sort or seperate arenas.

I think your typin to type. Which one of you Aks is the lawyer I'm sure they told ya once the "devils in the details" but I think ya gotta read umm.

I have made no remark regarding whether or not the 152 is a good plane or not I know its a good plane I fly it my squad flies it. But its limited to what in can do in the main. Which is fine. but the fact that it really is about as "rare" as you can get which imho justifies it being perked.

as for perk vrs perk even in an rps I would imagine the really late war stuff not getting more then 2 days per tour (i would think 1) so at the most you get 24 days a year to fly um. couple that with the inevitable arguement over "introduction" dates but thats irrelevant.

[Nifty]

I think one thing that is going on here is that you (deja and wotan) were using the word dominating to mean different things earlier in the thread.  Wotan seemed (I could be wrong) to be using dominating in relation to the frequency the plane was appearing while Deja was using dominating in terms of the ability of the aircraft.  I could have confused myself while reading though.  

Perking keeps the high-performance AC to a reasonable number (and keeps a marginal AC from being overused, i.e. the CHog), at least that's what it is intended to do.  As Lazs says, perking doesn't bring parity.  The Me262 is still out there shooting at slower planes, it's just not out there in massive numbers.  Perking just restricts use, it doesn't promote fairness.

If the limit is 64, Deja's right, we'll need a RPS.  If it's 128, then it'll be awhile before we need that RPS.  (I'm hoping it's 128 for the MA.)