Author Topic: Need a legal/military advice. Serious. (Read 2638 times)

miko2d · « **on:** October 31, 2003, 08:38:25 AM »

My friend has a problem - or rather his girlfriend's son has a problem. The guy is 19 years old and while not particularly evil, seems to run with a bad crowd.

For instance on the day of the big power blackout they were caugh in a locked-up Wallmart with a shopping cart full of shotguns.

At that time he was on probation for and "unathorised use of a car" or something - which, if I understand it correctly, means he was not charged with stealing a car but was in it.

Anyway, he is on a $5K bail now and expecting a date with a judge in a few months.

All I could advise them is to try and make a deal with a judge to enlist in a military. I've heard it used to be done. I am sure a hitch in a military will much more likely set his head straigh than the equal time in jail.
19-24 is a dangerous time for some people and his weakness of falling under other people's influence may actually prove a strength in the army environment - he will be more succeptible for indictrination than a more independent-minded guy. They could even set him straight for life, if they do not kill him or turn him into a real murderer.

Any ideas? Any experience? Are such deals still being done?

miko

capt. apathy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2003, 08:54:42 AM »

I don't think that's been done for 30 years or so. in fact when I was going in (84- psoriasis ended up keeping me out), part of the paperwork was a afidavit swearing I wasn't going in to escape prosecution or as some part of a plea deal.

maybe they have changed now bu thats how it was then.

btw- unauthorised use of a motor vehicle means they caught you driving it but cant prove you where the origanal thief. this is almost always the charge for car theft because the GTA costs to much to try and prove in court (in most cases)

Gunthr · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:28:14 AM »

Its definately worth a try. The prosecutor (District Attorney its called in New York I believe) would have to go along with it. Judges have a lot of discretionary power, but this is a pretty serious crime. It would have been better if they were caught stealing something other than shotguns :/

Dune · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:29:19 AM »

I can think of about 5 felony charges off the top of my head for this guy. Including prohibited possessor charges for having the shotguns. And all the sentences would be enhanced becuase he was on probation.

I hate to say it, but I doubt you're going to find anyone willing to let him off to join the military. I wouldn't make that deal. Plus, IIRC, you can't join the military anyways if you have a prior felony conviction. Simply becuase felons who don't have their rights restored cannot possess firearms. Which makes it difficult to be a soldier.

Honestly, I would expect this person to be facing roughly two years in the state pen. if he takes the plea bargin.

Sorry I didn't have better news.

-Concho- · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:30:46 AM »

think the Capt. is right. that was a Vietnam era sentance.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:39:02 AM »

He won't get in the service, I garantee it. Had a friend who was going to join up with me, at age 18...he had a pending court date for possession of stolen property and the Gov't finds these things out with a quick background check.

DmdNexus · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:46:20 AM »

What were they planning on doing with a "shopping cart full of shotguns"

In any case, I hope they get help.

bigsky · « **Reply #7 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:49:10 AM »

when i was in the army in 1988, we got a new guy. during some drinking he told me that he was in the army for pulling a gun on a cop. i dont know if its true, but he didnt seem to have any reason to lie about this. last week i visited with a woman i know just back from the mideast. she told me they were desperate for more people so it may be worth a try. but i doubt with his record that they would take him. if for some reason he does get in, you may want to tell him that theives are very likely to fall down flights of stairs and there will be lots of witnesses to the fact thier injurys were caused by falling down stairs, if you know what i mean.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #8 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:52:11 AM »

Short answer: NO

AKIron · « **Reply #9 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:53:06 AM »

Never hurts to ask but I think his chance of getting into the military is nil. At least that would have been the case a few years ago, getting in got quite competitive. Now, with the troops in the middle east things may have changed.

fd ski · « **Reply #10 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:55:59 AM »

It would cetrainly do him good, althought I doubt whether they will make a deal.
Military is really picky about people's prior records.
They'll take anyone as long as they are not a certifiable f__k up. Sounds like he already has a record.

JBA · « **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2003, 09:56:27 AM »

Buy him a BUTT plug.
He'll need it where he's going.

Gunthr · « **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2003, 10:00:33 AM »

Its funny. I remember in the late 60's/early 70's a neighborhood kid got busted in a pre-dawn raid with LSD, speed, pot and hash.

The judge let him join the Army (obviously with the Army's consent) and he went straight to Vietnam (where he found the purist and cheapest heroin available - he came home with a big monkey, but that is another story)

It was as if they needed canon fodder. And it occurs to me that if a Judge withholds adjudication with the agreement of all parties, an offender would technically not have a felony conviction.

Times change. Then they change again. Who knows if these kind of agreements might come around again ...

streakeagle · « **Reply #13 on:** October 31, 2003, 10:03:16 AM »

When I joined the Navy in 1989, almost half of my bootcamp company were either ex-convicts or plea-bargain types. One of my closer friends was talked into lying about the deal by a recruiter, which later got him kicked out for lying. He only lied so he could get into the sonar program which required Secret clearance. Most in my company did not lie about their circumstances and the Navy happliy used them to clean toilets and paint ships (airman/seaman apprentices with no job specialty).

In recent years, recruiters have grown even more desperate. High school diploma equivalency was required when I joined, but is not required any more, at least as of 2000 when my friend was a recruiter in Kansas bringing in anyone that could say their name and sign the forms.

What the Navy officially accepts and what they actually recruit and keep are very often two different standards.

I am glad that the submarine community is a little more picky. The worst submarine crews seem like intelligent, high-class snobs compared to typical surface fleet crews. I have lived in barracks where the majority of people there lived like animals.

I can't speak for the other branches, but I am quite certain that it is possible for a potential convict to make a deal to join the Navy, especially if the recruiter needs to meet his quota for the month and only has a few days left.

jonnyb · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2003, 10:07:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dune
...Plus, IIRC, you can't join the military anyways if you have a prior felony conviction. Simply becuase felons who don't have their rights restored cannot possess firearms. Which makes it difficult to be a soldier.

Although difficult to do, a felon can indeed join the armed services. S/he needs to get a document called a felony waiver. Basically, it leaves it up to the discretion of some very high ranking officers (aka Commandant of the Marine Corps if that is the service) on whether or not to accept this person. If the felony charge has anything to do with violence (armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, etc) the felony waiver will be summarily dismissed. Other felony charges (speeding to elude for example) have a much better chance of getting the waiver passed. In any case, it will cost the candidate a decent amount of attorney's fees as well as a good amount of time invested in writing letters to Congressmen, Judges, Police Officers, etc.

As far as the original question is concerned, based on the described situation, I would have to say that this guy is going to spend some time in prison. Already on probation and being caught with a cartful of shotguns is a bad place to be when facing a prosecutor.