Author Topic: The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003  (Read 8284 times)

Offline lazs2

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2003, 05:52:41 PM »
and cyrano.... what is the world coming to when you can't even rob at (fake) gunpoint or break and enter a persons home?   Much better to stay in spain if you are a criminal I would say.
lazs

Offline midnight Target

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2003, 05:56:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
MT.... what states have "no gun control laws"?      I am telling you that there is no state in the union that has "no gun control laws".
lazs


http://www.uh.edu/~dbarclay/rm/stats.htm

Here is a more recent listing of gun laws by State. I don't consider concealed carry permit only "gun control" States. I don't know the criteria used by the folks who put together the stat I posted.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/gun.control/
« Last Edit: November 03, 2003, 05:59:15 PM by midnight Target »

Offline mrblack

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2003, 06:02:30 PM »
Thank God I'm in Texas and yes I do carry a gun.
A nice kimber 45 acp classic.

Offline lazs2

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2003, 06:07:53 PM »
MT... obviously neither do the people who put the stats together.   They seem to have made them up out of thin air.    There are no states with no gun control laws.... we have over 20,000 gun control laws and every state has it's fair share of draconian ones.

We would need to see what laws the person compiling the stats considered "gun control"    and.... *I would love to see what  gun control laws he sees as the cause for such drops in homicide rates (small tho they be even by his figures)...  

Certainly not concealed carry laws as in the decades of concealed carry laws there have been allmost no incidences of abuse...  

Is California considered a gun control state?  It certainly is by me... I don't imagine it helped the average much.

lazs

Offline mrblack

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2003, 06:13:26 PM »
Look there are a ton gun of laws on the books .
But as long as we have smart lawyers going true the loopholes on both sides we will have issus.

I have no trouble with making it harder for stupid people to get guns(gun shows).
But for the law abidding guy he should not have to jump true hoops just to own a gun.

We have to make the penalties much stiffer for gun crimes.
And inforce them.
HARD TIME!!! And I mean HARD TIME none of this oh please reforme me BS .
put there butts to work(cool hand luke style).
Till the day they DIE.
And If they kill someone then give em the needle fast.
None of this sitting on death row for 10 years farting around on appeals.
Get tha watermelon over with give the clown his due process and then kill him:aok

Offline lazs2

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2003, 06:18:13 PM »
man.... just looked at that cnn site...  they say that there is no law requiring registration of firearms in Ca...  No, go try to by one and tell the dealer that you don't want it registered...   the law states that you can't even transfer guns between private citizens without "registering" them through a FFL licenced dealer.    

There is no mention of right to carry or transport or waiting periods or any of a myriad of other draconian measures.

The site that gives the homicide stats gives no information at all except that they are using 1990 data.    Rates have fallen and states with right to carry laws hjave shown decreases in all crime.
lazs

Offline mrblack

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2003, 06:20:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
man.... just looked at that cnn site...  they say that there is no law requiring registration of firearms in Ca...  No, go try to by one and tell the dealer that you don't want it registered...   the law states that you can't even transfer guns between private citizens without "registering" them through a FFL licenced dealer.    

There is no mention of right to carry or transport or waiting periods or any of a myriad of other draconian measures.

The site that gives the homicide stats gives no information at all except that they are using 1990 data.    Rates have fallen and states with right to carry laws hjave shown decreases in all crime.
lazs


Did you really think you would get an unbiased opinion from MT:rofl

Offline CyranoAH

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2003, 06:31:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
and cyrano.... what is the world coming to when you can't even rob at (fake) gunpoint or break and enter a persons home?   Much better to stay in spain if you are a criminal I would say.
lazs


My problem is that the gun owner appoints himself as jury, judge, and executor, being death the only possible verdict.

Did the guy with the BBgun deserve death as punishment? Did the burglar?

Much better to stay in Spain, criminal or otherwise, I'll give you that.

Daniel

Offline Hawklore

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2003, 06:33:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
The point is.... there are fewer gun related deaths when gun controls exist.



And everystate has some sort of gun control law, I think, I don't see 9 year olds walking around with a holster anywhere in the US...but It's sad to think that a kindergardner can shoot and kill a classmate....even if it is by accident.:( :mad:
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life." - Chief Tecumseh

Offline mrblack

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2003, 06:39:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CyranoAH


Did the guy with the BBgun deserve death as punishment? Did the burglar?




 
YES

Offline CyranoAH

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2003, 06:49:18 PM »
:eek:  

Alllrighty...

..now...

...relax...

..and put that gun down...

Daniel

Offline mrblack

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2003, 06:51:29 PM »
HAPPINESS IS A WARM GUN!

Offline Dago

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2003, 07:38:52 PM »
Quote
My problem is that the gun owner appoints himself as jury, judge, and executor, being death the only possible verdict.


The gun owner also appointed himself "survivor".  I think it's important to remember that in each case stated in "The Armed Citizen" and each and ever other case where a citizen used a gun to defend himself, it was the criminal who started the incident, not the gun owner!  The gun owner just wanted to be left alone, but when forced to act, he choose to defend himself, he choose to survive.  

The gun owner didn't choose to appoint himself jury, judge or executioner, the criminal forced those roles upon him.  I am sure in 100% of those cases, the gun owner would prefer to avoid any altercation and just live his life in peace.  But, because he owned a gun, he had an option beyond just waiting to see what the criminal had in mind, waiting to let the criminal decide his and his families destiny, he had the ability to defend himself.  That is the choice/ability I choose rather than stand by like a lamb waiting for the slaughter.  I hope and pray I never have to be forced to use a firearm against another human being, but if a criminal threatens me or my family, I am glad I might have a chance to defend us.


BTW laz, I agree with you that in 1990 every state in the Union was sure to have some gun controls, and this doesn't take into account federal gun control laws.  But that statement quoted by MT is typical of the nonsense put out by the anti-gun zealots, big on emotion, big on sesastionalism, but very short on truth and proper context.  Ya know, never let the facts get in the way of a scary statement.


dago
« Last Edit: November 03, 2003, 07:44:46 PM by Dago »
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline midnight Target

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2003, 09:55:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrblack
Did you really think you would get an unbiased opinion from MT:rofl


always

Gun Death - International Comparisons
 

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

 

                                                                                                                                        Homicide                  Suicide         unintentional

USA                     4.08 (1999)             6.08 (1999)      0.42 (1999)

Canada                 0.54 (1999)             2.65 (1997)      0.15 (1997)

Switzerland           0.50 (1999)             5.78 (1998)      -

Scotland               0.12 (1999)             0.27 (1999)      -

England/Wales      0.12 (1999/00)        0.22 (1999)      0.01 (1999)

Japan                    0.04* (1998)           0.04 (1995)      <0.01 (199

Offline mrblack

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The Armed Citizen - Oct 2003
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2003, 10:04:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
always

Gun Death - International Comparisons
 

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

 

                                                                                                                                        Homicide                  Suicide         unintentional

USA                     4.08 (1999)             6.08 (1999)      0.42 (1999)

Canada                 0.54 (1999)             2.65 (1997)      0.15 (1997)

Switzerland           0.50 (1999)             5.78 (1998)      -

Scotland               0.12 (1999)             0.27 (1999)      -

England/Wales      0.12 (1999/00)        0.22 (1999)      0.01 (1999)

Japan                    0.04* (1998)           0.04 (1995)      <0.01 (199


And the people on the Titanic would have never died if they had never invented the boat.

So what is you'r point?
Guns are here that is a fact of life in America.
Can't handle it ? don't like it ?
Make change with you'r vote then.


But as long as mankind is on the planet we will find ways of killing one another.