Author Topic: Euro pole (Read 4863 times)

Krusher · « **Reply #45 on:** November 05, 2003, 07:39:32 AM »

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Originally posted by Fishu
In any case, why is US war mongering in whole different place, when the people responsible were AND are from saudi-arabia and egypt?
Somehow the terrorist harboring countries have been left alone since Afganistan, which makes me wonder why the WTC every now and then pops up in the discussions, as if it has anything to do with Iraq for example.

Most of the terrorist who attacked on 9-11 lived, planned and recieved money from European counties. They may not have been "citizens" but they were treated to all the benifits of your society including welfare. From everything I have read most of theses guys activities were well known to intelligence agancies in these countries but nothing was done to curtail them.

One of the Al-quada wannabe groups that was, and still is in eastern Iraq, has their founder living and planning attacks on americans from Norway. His lawyer claims he has nothing to do with this terrorist group yet it is pretty well documented that he in fact does.

They may not technicaly be citizens of Europe, but they sure act like it. Keep that in mind when you are deciding for the USA what targets we should fight in the war on terrorism. Face it Fishu your words speak volumes no matter how you cloak it.

Krusher · « **Reply #46 on:** November 05, 2003, 07:41:35 AM »

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Oh, and thanks for the compliment [/B]

capt. apathy · « **Reply #47 on:** November 05, 2003, 07:57:32 AM »

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Most of the terrorist who attacked on 9-11 lived, planned and recieved money from European counties. They may not have been "citizens" but they were treated to all the benifits of your society including welfare.

to be fair you could say the same thing about us. they recieved funds and help from americans too.

Fishu · « **Reply #48 on:** November 05, 2003, 07:57:54 AM »

Krusher,

Hey.. I have nothing against limiting the flow of "refugees"

I'd be only happy if they'd pass a law which would make it tougher for the "refugees" to get in here and easier to send them back if they're not behaving.

In fact the only time someone unknown to me attacked me in public, was some foreigner, presumably a refugee.
Plus I've heard of stories from janitors how some of the families lives in the city apartments...
Makes me wonder why did they come over here as a refugees, if they cannot ¤/%#/% appreciate and respect the 'hospitality'.

This refugee thing is some wierd popular thing nowadays, which it wasnt just a couple decades ago.

In any case, FBI or CIA, whichever, did know about the 911 attackers, but neither did anything... so can't fault only the europeans for not doing something for it.
besides, if it'd been me running the agencies, any foreign refugee with suspected criminal activity in any manner, would go through a magnification glass.
The 911 attack wasn't a surprise for me, however the scale of it was... it wasn't hard to know there was going to be an attack sometime within few years, nor that there was insufficient actions made to prevent those.
(and why wasnt it a surprise that an attack would happen? simply by looking at the US international politics)

Torque · « **Reply #49 on:** November 05, 2003, 08:13:57 AM »

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Originally posted by fd ski
Just as well documented as america's insistance to stand by and allow it to happend without doing anything.

You are wrong sir, Standard Oil invested millions into IG Farben.

Krusher · « **Reply #50 on:** November 05, 2003, 08:16:08 AM »

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Originally posted by Fishu

In any case, FBI or CIA, whichever, did know about the 911 attackers, but neither did anything... so can't fault only the europeans for not doing something for it.

I wasnt really faulting the europeans, I was only trying to point out that when you make a statement like this

"Somehow the terrorist harboring countries have been left alone since Afganistan, which makes me wonder why the WTC every now and then pops up in the discussions"

be sure you know where they (the terrorist) are really living.

The war on terrorism is not going to be confined to iraq. It is a world wide problem and much of the world is trying to do something about it. The argument that the US should only attack the countries we know harbored 9-11 attackers is short sighted and in my opinion lacks a long term vision. Terrorism is not static, it is dynamic and it must be fought on many fronts. Iraq and afganistan are part of that fight.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #51 on:** November 05, 2003, 08:32:33 AM »

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The argument that the US should only attack the countries we know harbored 9-11 attackers is short sighted and in my opinion lacks a long term vision.

so maybe we should clarify the issue by listing the countries that haven't/aren't suporting terrorists. would we be on that list?

Krusher · « **Reply #52 on:** November 05, 2003, 08:41:08 AM »

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Originally posted by capt. apathy
so maybe we should clarify the issue by listing the countries that haven't/aren't suporting terrorists. would we be on that list?

hmmm taking one line out of context and ignoring the previous post and its reply.

whatever

Rude · « **Reply #53 on:** November 05, 2003, 09:38:21 AM »

Some of you had better pray we do not find WMD's in Iraq( which I think we will).

If we do, the American support for Bush will swell and we'll move on thru Syria, N.Korea and the rest who promote terror.

I'm sure I'll read another 4 years of socialist spew as well.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #54 on:** November 05, 2003, 11:34:48 AM »

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Originally posted by Fishu
Oh come on, you can't be that short sighted.
Go look the US international politics before WTC... perhaps theres can be the cause, eh?

In any case, why is US war mongering in whole different place, when the people responsible were AND are from saudi-arabia and egypt?
Somehow the terrorist harboring countries have been left alone since Afganistan, which makes me wonder why the WTC every now and then pops up in the discussions, as if it has anything to do with Iraq for example.

911 has everything to do with Iraq invasion - if no 911 Saddam would still be in power. 911 simply changed at how the USA looked at the possibility of mass terror attacks and what our response should be. 911 made it impossible to ignore him and is outrageous behavior. Plus iraq invasion is a big picture idea to reshjape the region wholesale - so I understand why a "small" politically fearful unimaginiative conservative european leadrship cadre is unable or unwilling to grasp the concept.

miko2d · « **Reply #55 on:** November 05, 2003, 11:45:29 AM »

GRUNHERZ: 911 has everything to do with Iraq invasion - if no 911 Saddam would still be in power.

The PNAC was created before 911. The neo-cons wished for "another Pearl Harbor like event" but stated that we shoudl proceed without it.

In fact, it would have been easier to make a decision to annex Iraq without 911.

1. We would not have had as huge material damage to our economy caused by 911.
2. We would not have felt the need to dedicate as much resources towards protection from actual terrorism.
3. We would have less need of a socialist secular regime hostile to radical islam fundamentalism in the Middle East.

Plus iraq invasion is a big picture idea to reshape the region wholesale - so I understand why a "small" politically fearful unimaginiative conservative european leadrship cadre is unable or unwilling to grasp the concept.

Oh, they've grasped the concept very well. It's your who cannot grasp another vital concept - that they may know what's going on and still disagree with what US government is doing.

miko

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #56 on:** November 05, 2003, 11:59:48 AM »

Ahh yes PNAC, the great evil booggeyman. I hear they really caused the 911 attacks.

I love your word use miko, but annex is just too weak - perhaps anschluss woud suit you better?

The euros dont understand, they may be able to follow our actions but they dont understand. France for one is eager to get an Iraqi governemt right now, no matter what it is just so they can come in an corrupt it for thaeir oli companies - they arent intrwsted in making a democratic long term iraq.

miko2d · « **Reply #57 on:** November 05, 2003, 12:38:33 PM »

GRUNHERZ: I hear they really caused the 911 attacks.

In view of their need for such an event, it was not in their interest to stop an attack if they learned about it. You should read their teacher Leo Strauss one day. Keeping peons unaware about the plans of the enlightened elite and sacrificing a few for the benefit of many.

I love your word use miko, but annex is just too weak - perhaps anschluss woud suit you better?

Whatever. Took posession. That's a quite neutral and descriptive term.

The euros dont understand, they may be able to follow our actions but they dont understand.

Their brain structure is genetically different? Too low intelligence in general? Unfamilarity with Leo Strauss's teachings?

I would understand if we promoted the british common-law system in Iraq rather than their favorite Napoleonic system of laws, but we are doing the opposite.

they arent intrwsted in making a democratic long term iraq.

What makes you think US is or ever has been interested in making democratic anything in the Middle East?
French probably remember that US and UK replaced democratic government in Iran with a shah. US and UK and France installed monarchies in the provinces of the Ottoman Empire, not democracies. Have we been promoting democracy in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia? Did US help democratic forces in Afghanistan or did it help the Taliban?

Why would anyone believe what US government says when the record is clear on what it does?

miko

Kirin · « **Reply #58 on:** November 05, 2003, 12:40:04 PM »

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Europes support of the final solution is well documented.

Well, Isreal is doing pretty good in the making of their own final solution - only that they're on the other side of the fence this time...

miko2d · « **Reply #59 on:** November 05, 2003, 12:44:13 PM »

Kirin: Well, Isreal is doing pretty good in the making of their own final solution - only that they're on the other side of the fence this time...

To be honest, they are much closer to the implementation originally envisioned in Mein Kamph rather than to what has happened.

Grab the land, throw out most of the indigenous population, keep the rest isolated and at low level of economic development/education and use for manual labor.

miko