Worse than cursing

[fradim]

I have witnessed this depressing conversation last sunday at night, in the
public channel of Main Arena. I have omitted names because if it were personal I would send this message to them:
 
1st pilot: women from south america
2nd pilot: lol
1st pilot: i actually think they are cheaper from the philipines though
2rd pilot: nah, eastern bloc countries are best
1st pilot: but they got snaggle teeth
3rd pilot: Philipines ... thats where ya wanna order a wife
4th pilot: 1st pilot your mistaken, they have no teeth
......
 
I really don't care what these people think. But I DO care when they express these unworthy ideas in a public channel, in such a shameless and unconcerned manner. This is certainly not something we might expect to see in a mutinational environment as the one we have in Aces High.
 
I have decided to avoid any kind of quarrel out of respect for the other players online and my squad mates. Besides, I believe this is the best forum in which we can discuss such issues, in a mature way.
 
I hope we all remember here that Aces High is not just a game/sim: it's a community, in which we interact with people from all over the world; people with their own ideas and biases but who share with us the same need of
respect and civility.

fradim

[AKDejaVu]

Here we go...

[Badger]

<S> fradim......

[Udie]

 I have an old work peer that bought his wife from Russia. No kidding,  it cost him about $20k total and he had to fly there twice.  Once to meet her and her family, the next time to marry her and bring her back here to Texas.

 What's wrong with that?

Udie

[Westy]

"Here we go"  ??     I think that line helped me lose any last visage of respect I had for you Dejavu. Not that you probably care.

 I think Fradim's point is an obvious lack of respect on the part of some players.  I do not see him asking for a program to inject politeness into players dialogues.  
 
 In the past I've try to step up and remind people that we have an international community here. Whenever I read some idiot blurt out into the radio "we SpEak eNglish hear!!"  or crudely ask "what is all this French gibberish??" (exagerated to reflect my contempt for thier ignorant attitudes but both are real examples of what I have seen online)

 A few weeks ago we had a player politely request that folks stop refering to the Japanese as "Japs."   What a pile of greif he got. IMO, Fradim has every right to be offended and he is asking people to wake up and be aware that what many of our "jokes" online, especially those with racist/ethnic conatations,  IS bound to offend some.

 This is all about respect. Not about a filter. I see no one asking for a muzzle or "book burning".  This is about common courtesy and respect.
 
 Just my .02.  

    -Westy
 



[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 09-26-2000).]

[Creamo]

Boy, do we need 1.05 and some Pacific ops soon. You guys have nuthing but time to moan about message buffer. Blah blah on,and on....

Actually, after playing the new Crimson Sky Demo last night(Hawaii map), we REALLY need 1.05 and new terrain. You guys see those graphics? Man O man...  

BTW, it only cost $1 for me to get my fiances address from Davao City Philippines. (Actually $5 total foe 5 diffrent addresses, but really clicked with one.) 2 years later, couldn't be happier.  So I say Philippines is cheapest if thats the argument?

[Naso]

 

Originally posted by Udie:
I have an old work peer that bought his wife from Russia. No kidding,  it cost him about $20k total and he had to fly there twice.  Once to meet her and her family, the next time to marry her and bring her back here to Texas.

 What's wrong with that?

Udie

Nothink, if you think people can be bought like livestock, in fact slavery never ended, is'nt it?  

Everythink have a price.  

Even Dignity and honor.  

Bleach...  

I hope you were trolling, Udie.

[RAM]

humpf.

 first we got a filter for bad words (not that I mind a lot), now people starts asking for conversation control?

I dont say that the conversantion Fradim says is very constructive or not. I say that nobody here has the right to ask anyone to talk or not to talk about a matter.

people is free to say whatever in MA. I remember at least 2 people with the word "nazi" in their handle,yelling nonsense in the arnea and they didnt get a single word about banning in this BBS.

Let people talk about what they want, sheesh.

at this pace someday there will be smoke detectors to prevent people smoking while playing AH  

(and no, I dont smoke)

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-26-2000).]

[Naso]

HEY !!  

DONT  

EVEN  

TRY  

TO  

MAKE  

ME  

QUIT  

SMOKING  

:MAD:

 

[Andres]

Yo All!

First of all: yes, it is depressing when you see humans treated like a peace of meat. I have alot of respect for woman and for all humanity. Those guys, in a few words, showed no respect for either woman or humanity. "Order a wife"? "Oh, please, include 2 children and a 6 pack of beer on the order, make shure one of the childres is from philipnies becouse they are cheaper!!!" Doesnt it sound pathetic? It disgusts me. Human is not merchandise. Yes, this is a way worse than cursing for me. I'd rather hear 1000 f*cks than 1 conversation like that.
2- Udie, if your friend is so incompetent with woman that he feels better "ordering one" from wherever, well, poor rich guy he is but nothing really wrong with it. It's his problem.
Wrong is say things like: "Woman from south america are cheaper". Don't you see how imoral is it? I wanna know if you really think it's ok!


[]s to all!
Andre(S)

[popeye]

I think the point here is to remind players that this is an international forum, and we might think twice before making "harmless" jokes that might insult other players.

If your view is that insulting other people is some kind of "right" that you are entitled to, then I doubt you'll be persuaded that respect for others is a reasonable request.

I don't expect any kind of official control on such behavior, but judging from HTC's reasons for installing the language filter, I suspect that they would like to see players exercise some courtesy toward each other in this case as well.

Will it hurt the game to have players make an effort to respect each other?  I don't think so.  If you think it will...think about THAT.  

popeye

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by Creamo:
...BTW, it only cost $1 for me to get my fiances address from Davao City Philippines. (Actually $5 total foe 5 diffrent addresses, but really clicked with one.) 2 years later, couldn't be happier.  So I say Philippines is cheapest if thats the argument?

Was that sight unseen on her part?  
Scarey what folks will do to get in the U.S.

 

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-26-2000).]

[StSanta]

Westy and fradim, I see your points and they are easy to agree with. But they also come just after a filter has been put in 8for good reasons) and makes me wonder if this is a trend of sorts. Allow me to rave on for a bit about PC'ness in general and this incident in particular. I really see PC'ness as a pseudo threat to the right to speak your mind. It's better to air something and be done with it than to have it grow in sub cultures and become powerful.

I can understand your social taboo against cursing, but this PC'ness gotta stop SOMEWHERE.

I hear jokes I don't find funny. It happens. But I don't try to force my sort of humour down the throat of others, or do I try to censor others just because I disagree with it. If I hear jokes I don't like, I just stop listening, or kindly ask people to be a bit more considerate

Humans joke about serious things. And we're fat, rich and happy (we who play AH) compared to most. Insensitive joke, sure, but a joke nevertheless.

What's next? No jokes about allied being opportunists, because it upsets someone who had family who fought in the war? No more calling German krauts because "it brings back bad memories"?

ANY joke will likely offend at least ONE person.

Shit. I've had enough of PC'ness. Be PC yourself, but don't force it on me. I'll make crude insensitive jokes and be an overall amazinhunk now and then. For the fun of it.

I'll go kill some whales, eat Flipper and shoot Bambi. Take the car around to the shop, and let the engine run while I'm inside. I'll refer to japanese as Japs, and eat red meat in front of vegans. I'll vote yes for nuclear power, and no to more taxes on gas. I'll crack jokes about gays and blondes. Will continue to buy beer instead of sending money to starving Africans. Also openly support legalisation of drugs comparable to alcohol, and publicly denounce any politician of my choice. I'll berate writers I don't like. And I will call an idiot an idiot, not a "mentally deprived person".

I won't be anti-PC, but I shall be a-PC.

If stuff like this gets to you, you've lived a sheltered, secure safe little life and haven't been forced to grow thick skin on yer nose. There are a LOT worse things out there than insensitive jokes.

Of course I'll respect my fellow pilots and if they request I discontinue something they find particularly offensive, I might stop doing it, out of respect for them. But I will *not* be bullied into stopping.

I find chute shooting more offensive, as it is directed at the person, not some undefined target. Most seem to be OK with chute shooting though, so I keep my mouth shut and live with it. Ain't that bad really.

 

------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"

[Udie]

 

Originally posted by Naso:
Nothink, if you think people can be bought like livestock, in fact slavery never ended, is'nt it?  

Everythink have a price.  

Even Dignity and honor.  

Bleach...  

I hope you were trolling, Udie.

 NO I wasn't trolling. I realy don't see the problem though.  He did "buy" her like a slave hehe.  He had to go there and meet her and her family, after they corisponded for 6 months.  Then he had a 2 month waiting period to make sure that's what they both wanted.

 That was 2 yrs ago, they have a beautiful 1 yr old baby now   both are happy here in Texas.   Perhaps joking about it is bad, but I don't see anything wrong with mail order brides.  Why should 2 people be alone just because they're seperated by a half a world?

Udie

[Andres]

Westy got it! Rigth to the point.

Go back and read his posting again please!