Author Topic: P51D vs Dora (Read 5668 times)

TheManx · « **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2003, 12:59:18 AM »

I've never had a really tough times vs d9's in my mustang. They climb a bit better, but not really well enough to stay out of trouble and the roll rate only works if the mustang driver dosen't cut throttle. With full flaps, the mustang easily outturns it and top end seems about even. At high, low or stall speeds I think I'd prefer being in the mustang.

Steve · « **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2003, 01:12:24 AM »

Hmm.. cut throttle and the you can stay behind the d9.. not necessarily with it though.... it can just leave at that point... or even seperate and go vertical. It seems your comment was directed at my reference, and others to the D9's roll rate.
We were talking about pilots being equal. If you're an above average pilot certainly you can overcome some of a particular enemy plane's performance advantages.
I'd rather be in the mustang too though, I just think if the d9 pilot is allowed to play to his advantages that he'd have at least an equal chance of winning.
I guess it's just comes down to a difference of opinion.
As for having trouble w/ the d9... well you could be among the few...although statistically speaking, I have less trouble w/ it than even your vaunted self.

TheManx · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2003, 01:21:18 AM »

I apologize if you took this for a pissing contest Steve, because that wasn't what it was. Your style of mustang flying is very different from my own. You tend to use speed a great deal in fights, and I tend to go to flaps earlier. I'm not saying one's better or more fun than the other, just saying our styles are quite different. With that in mind, our ratio's vs all planes will be different, and I hardly stated anywhere that I was "vaunted". That said, both pilots being equal...I still give a big edge to the mustang.

moot · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2003, 01:00:13 PM »

D9 is a fast brick, 51D is a fast, heavy brick with flaps and a long reach.

I'd much rather fight a 51D than a 38 or spit14, even though the other two are harder to kill.

It's more fun to use a 152.

Equal pilots, I think the 51D wins 65-75% of the time easily.

moot · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2003, 01:01:46 PM »

in a deep, hormonal whiny tone I will add that it's BS many of the planes can't use flaps >200, if not >180mph.

Westy · « **Reply #20 on:** November 14, 2003, 01:32:25 PM »

Actually moot it's "BS" that players think they should be able to use the flaps on all aircraft in aircombat for some perceived advantage.
Only a few WWII aircraft could - the N1K2, P-51D are two examples that had flaps or flap settings for combat.

And I think the BS is HTC modeling auto-retraction of flaps instead of having them become jammed or damaged. IMO they might as well have added an automatic landing gear retract feature too.

slimm50 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 14, 2003, 03:57:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dawg03
not all of us p-51 pilots are nubes.....

check 6

Ya beat me to th punch, dawg. I used to be pretty fair driver in a pony, then I started 'sperimintin with other rides. Shoulda stuck to th pony. Think I'll go back to it, now after this thread.

I read in either Yeager's or Anderson's book (don't remember which one) that whenever they took off in their P51 they just knew they were better than the enemy, and would always win. I think whoever wrote that was talking as much about their plane, as they were about their own ability. They had that much confidence in the P51.

slim03

edit: ditto what WESTY said.

moot · « **Reply #22 on:** November 14, 2003, 06:18:41 PM »

well surprise me: the 190D (to pick just one) had no possible way to pull down some flaps at 200mph or more?
I'm thinking flaps are a part of the plane as any other, you could substitute "flaps" for wep or control trims.

I agree with the rest.

Steve · « **Reply #23 on:** November 14, 2003, 07:09:21 PM »

Pissing contest? Manx, I think you are taking my post with the wrong tone. You commented that:

Quote

I've never had a really tough times vs d9's in my mustang.

I took that you meant this as a way to show that your opinion had some merit since you beat d9 pilots more often than not.
I replied in kind; showing, based on that logic, my opinion had merit as well.
Although you really didn't need to do this, at least for my benefit. As a long time acquaintance of mine in flight sims, I would give your opinion due consideration regardless.

As for the "vaunted" thing... it was a compliment...nothing more.

As I said it's really just a matter of opinion... you give the mustang a big edge.. I give it a slight one.

JB42 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 14, 2003, 07:20:19 PM »

Well I'll proly get flamed hard for this. I would guess that the ability to put out flaps out at high speeds might be a better tactic defensively than offesively. The higher lift ratio to forward speed created at high speed I would think would create somewhat of an unstable condition for a moment. Can't imagne that being a desired situation at a time of having an advantage.

Using kill data to compare planes is flawed. Saying because P51s shot down a lot of Doras makes the Pony better is slanted info. Thats like saying I'm the greatest boxer in the world because I knocked out all my opp. while they were already in the middle of a fight with someone else

Not to mention that after heavy Allied bombings and the ending resource of good pilots made the Dora Corps a bit substandard.

Again I would stand by the statement that niether plane was superior to the other all-around. Each one having particular advantages in different situations.

TheManx · « **Reply #25 on:** November 14, 2003, 08:29:30 PM »

Misunderstood your post Steve. JB, the P51's ability to employ flaps at high speed gives it an immediate edge in a dogfight. The more control you can maintain early in a dogfight the more quickly you can dispose of an opposing player. This ability will allow you to avoid the mass hoardes diving in to help their buddy. For my style, it's very beneficial...for others it wouldn't be that advantageous. I have a tendency to fight in heavy traffic area's rather than 1 on 1's, and have found that most D9's who have gotten me have hit me when I'm engaged with another con. But I suppose that's not unusual for any type of fighter in the game lately.

Glasses · « **Reply #26 on:** November 15, 2003, 04:39:51 PM »

If Kurt Tank built it and I fly it I'll win

DarkglamJG52 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 17, 2003, 04:47:18 AM »

Hola Godo.

El Fw 190 D era superior al P 51 D. Si posteas la pregunta en un foro español, no tendré problema en contestarte detalladamente.
Por cierto, Chuck Yeager opinaba lo mismo que yo.

Aquí tienes un foro en el cual puedes plantear tu cuestión.

Foro

davidpt40 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 17, 2003, 05:57:02 AM »

190D out accelerates P51 big time also.

My money is on P51 though. Its more balanced (speed, firepower, turning ability).

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #29 on:** November 17, 2003, 06:32:29 AM »

Chuck Yeager said the FW190D was the best prop fighter he ever flew provided you kept it under 25,000. He flew them as a test pilot after the war in the USA.