« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)  (Read 5560 times)

Offline humble

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6434
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« on: November 12, 2003, 03:14:39 PM »
This is a "curiosity" whine....

Been flying the spitty abit over last couple days...1st time in a long time. One thing it brought back to me is the uber E retension of the nikki. I was tooling along at 14k or so watching inbounds coming toward base I upped from...level with wep at ~340 or so...watched slightly higher alt nikki alter to come in...turned into him at 7.0 or so and took under on merge and extended dead level as he went for bad nose down shot...any way watch him pulling max G's bending down around...and see him rocket back up my prettythang...now over the last couple days I've seen Hogs, ponies, 38's, la-7's & jugs all try that move and fail to close enough to force me to break of the rope...the nikki not only could of caught me...it would of climbed 1500 ft over me:)...course I broke of back into him and had no further problems with him...but I can't believe the nikki can pull max G turn and retain E better than any other plane in the game by that much...

This ends the latest nikki whine...

hopefully AH2 will change the FM for the better....bring back 1.3 FM:):):aok
Logged

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2003, 03:42:21 PM »
God I love the N1K2.  No plane in AH before or since has elicited so many tears.  And the only evidence ever offered to show that it was modelled incorrectly... showed that it didn't have enough ammo!  Classic  :D
Logged
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline gofaster

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6622
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2003, 03:55:34 PM »
Bring the Air Warrior airplane-specific factory strat target to Aces High!

Actually, the n1k2 isn't as much a threat to my well-being as the Spitfire IX and LA-7 are.
Logged

Offline humble

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6434
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2003, 04:41:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SOB
God I love the N1K2.  No plane in AH before or since has elicited so many tears.  And the only evidence ever offered to show that it was modelled incorrectly... showed that it didn't have enough ammo!  Classic  :D


LOL....

1st i'm not a "nikki basher" I don't whine to anyone about what they fly....

As for "evidence" I just gave it to you. Turn rate at given speed and attitude is pure physics...A plane in vertical obilque turn (nose down) is fighting itself. Normally you'll see significant amount of seperation occure before the con begins to close the gap. The nikki is able to generate a very tight turn in this nose down vertical turn and maintain an enormous amount of E. It's "common Knowledge" that I think a huge majority of the MA vets would agree with. I'm not aware of any data that suggests that the Nikki was a quantum leap in aircraft design and capable of this kind of exceptional performance. It's simply a problem with the way the plane is modeled in AH...

As for "loving the nikki"....it's pretty common....especially amonst the ACM challenged.
Logged

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Mini D

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6897
      • Fat Drunk Bastards
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2003, 05:00:31 PM »
I was flying a Hurricane IIC last night and couldn't help but notice how much the nikkies and spits sucked.

MiniD
Logged

Offline mason22

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2654
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2003, 05:03:04 PM »
Hurri's suck worse, you should never fly them, don't even try it, they don't have enough ammo, they aren't worth it, the 4 20mm's suck, don't do it, stay out of the hurri. i mean it. :aok
Logged

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2003, 05:08:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
LOL....

1st i'm not a "nikki basher" I don't whine to anyone about what they fly....

[snip]

As for "loving the nikki"....it's pretty common....especially amonst the ACM challenged.

Now THAT is funny.  And if you read my post you'll notice you weren't mentioned anywhere in it.  I was commenting on the plane.  As for your "evidence", it's truly outstanding.  I can't believe someone isn't acting on it immediately!
Logged
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline Steve

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6728
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2003, 05:42:17 PM »
SOB, thanks for just being you.  Came home after a stressful day and got a laugh right off.   Don't go changing, love your humor...even the times it's fired at me.
Logged
Member: Hot Soup Mafia - Cream of Myshroom
Army of Muppets  Yes, my ingame name is Steve

Offline mora

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2351
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2003, 05:48:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SOB
God I love the N1K2.  No plane in AH before or since has elicited so many tears.  And the only evidence ever offered to show that it was modelled incorrectly... showed that it didn't have enough ammo!  Classic  :D


So is there any data showing that it is modelled correctly? I doubt there really aren't any data available conserning it's E retention.

Not that I really care, I can perfectly well get along with them. It's just boring to see the same planes all the time UFO's or not.
Logged

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8801
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2003, 07:10:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
LOL....

1st i'm not a "nikki basher" I don't whine to anyone about what they fly....

As for "evidence" I just gave it to you. Turn rate at given speed and attitude is pure physics...A plane in vertical obilque turn (nose down) is fighting itself. Normally you'll see significant amount of seperation occure before the con begins to close the gap. The nikki is able to generate a very tight turn in this nose down vertical turn and maintain an enormous amount of E. It's "common Knowledge" that I think a huge majority of the MA vets would agree with. I'm not aware of any data that suggests that the Nikki was a quantum leap in aircraft design and capable of this kind of exceptional performance. It's simply a problem with the way the plane is modeled in AH...

As for "loving the nikki"....it's pretty common....especially amonst the ACM challenged.


Just because it's a common whine, that doesn't make it true. I really don't enjoy flying the N1K2 much, and I don't find them especially formidable to fight.

Maybe we can put this stuff to rest with a simple test. As I have shown elsewhere on the BBS, mass is the primary factor in a zoom climb. I have tested every fighter in the plane set and and the heaviest fighters always have the best zoom climb.

The test is simple, accelerate to 300 mph and adjust power to stablize at that speed. Cut the throttle and engage auto-climb. whatever altitude is achieved, subtract 100 feet to get the net gain. The N1K2 zooms up 1,175 ft. The Spitfire Mk.IX zooms up 1,075 ft. The P-51D zooms up 1,225 ft. The F6F-5 zooms up to 1,600 ft, with the P-47D-30 and F4U-1D right there as well. Even the Bf-109G-10 is hard pressed to exceed 1,100 feet.

This test tells me that the N1K2 is no better than any other type in its weight class.

So, what about zoom climb at max power? I did that too.

Same test as before, except I leave throttle at max power, WEP engaged. At 300 mph I engage auto-climb, and note altitude when climb stablizes (normal climb based on thrust alone). Results?

N1K2: 3,100 ft.
Spitfire Mk.IX: 2,725 ft.
P-51D: 2,750 ft.
F6F-5: 3,150 ft.
Bf 109G-10: 3,475 ft.

Again, I see nothing to indicate the the N1K2 is any different from where it should be based upon its mass and normal climb rate. Especially when the F6F-5 does slightly better.

My regards,

Widewing
Logged
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2003, 07:39:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
This is a "curiosity" whine....

Been flying the spitty abit over last couple days...1st time in a long time. One thing it brought back to me is the uber E retension of the nikki. I was tooling along at 14k or so watching inbounds coming toward base I upped from...level with wep at ~340 or so...watched slightly higher alt nikki alter to come in...turned into him at 7.0 or so and took under on merge and extended dead level as he went for bad nose down shot...any way watch him pulling max G's bending down around...and see him rocket back up my prettythang...now over the last couple days I've seen Hogs, ponies, 38's, la-7's & jugs all try that move and fail to close enough to force me to break of the rope...the nikki not only could of caught me...it would of climbed 1500 ft over me:)...course I broke of back into him and had no further problems with him...but I can't believe the nikki can pull max G turn and retain E better than any other plane in the game by that much...

This ends the latest nikki whine...

hopefully AH2 will change the FM for the better....bring back 1.3 FM:):):aok



Nothing special here, just a classic case of one pilot misjudging the relative E state of the other plane.


ack-ack
Logged
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2003, 07:59:04 PM »
The funny thing is, how everybody acts cool and says "oh, the Nikis ain't nuthin'. I bash 'em all the time" out here on the boards.. but in the MA, get pretty much pissed and furious about how some Niki dweeb can do nothig but HO, fly only dweeb planes and etc etc. - the usual CH1 clashes.

 Especially true in the case, when they get shot down by those "you-know-who"s, who specialize in the N1K2-J. I think I've seen pretty many of the 'veteran' people of these boards, ;), just can't resist giving a wordy snap to N1K2 pilots.

 Frankly, I hate N1K2s because they are hard to kill. Trying to kill them on co-alt situation takes up a really long time if you don't have a plane that outmaneuvers it, and it sometimes can be almost impossible if you are in a plane that doesn't have a stellar advantage in climb rate. Some of those N1K2 specialists are like cobras - they bite, and don't let go. They don't care whether if there are other enemies around or not - if they target you, they bite at you alone. They know they cannot run, and when facing desperate situations, will do anything to kill you, and don't care if they get shotdown in the process.

 Yeah, you know which pilots I'm talking about. Those guys who can almost force a HO shot in, even when you are trying to maneuver away from the initial HO merge, those guys who can get a shot in even when you are extending away at 600~700 yards at a rapid rate, and those guys, who make even the veteran of veterans, cry out in ch1 "you fediddlein' N1K dweeb, doncha ever ride another plane?"

 :D
Logged

Offline zroostr

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 237
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2003, 08:08:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
The funny thing is, how everybody acts cool and says "oh, the Nikis ain't nuthin'. I bash 'em all the time" out here on the boards.. but in the MA, get pretty much pissed and furious about how some Niki dweeb can do nothig but HO, fly only dweeb planes and etc etc. - the usual CH1 clashes.

 Especially true in the case, when they get shot down by those "you-know-who"s, who specialize in the N1K2-J. I think I've seen pretty many of the 'veteran' people of these boards, ;), just can't resist giving a wordy snap to N1K2 pilots.

 Frankly, I hate N1K2s because they are hard to kill. Trying to kill them on co-alt situation takes up a really long time if you don't have a plane that outmaneuvers it, and it sometimes can be almost impossible if you are in a plane that doesn't have a stellar advantage in climb rate. Some of those N1K2 specialists are like cobras - they bite, and don't let go. They don't care whether if there are other enemies around or not - if they target you, they bite at you alone. They know they cannot run, and when facing desperate situations, will do anything to kill you, and don't care if they get shotdown in the process.

 Yeah, you know which pilots I'm talking about. Those guys who can almost force a HO shot in, even when you are trying to maneuver away from the initial HO merge, those guys who can get a shot in even when you are extending away at 600~700 yards at a rapid rate, and those guys, who make even the veteran of veterans, cry out in ch1 "you fediddlein' N1K dweeb, doncha ever ride another plane?"

 :D



classic stuff :lol :aok
Logged

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2003, 09:07:03 PM »
Kweassa, if you ever see me get upset about a N1K2 killing me online (you won't), you're welcome to give me a virtual kick in the nuts.  'Cause at that point, I'll deserve it.  ;)  Of course, I'm usually the one doing the HO'ing in the N1K2 or the Mossie or any other plane I'm flying where I just can't resist the urge to point the nose and shoot.  But maybe that's why I don't care...I AM a dweeb.  :D
Logged
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline GScholz

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8910
Beating A very dead horse...AGAIN:)
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2003, 10:26:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
F6F-5: 3,150 ft.
Bf 109G-10: 3,475 ft.
 


AHA!!!!!!!!!

So the F6F will NOT catch a 109G10 in a zoom climb!

MUAHAHAhahahaha!!!! ;) :D
Logged
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Up
« previous next »