Author Topic: reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2  (Read 2452 times)

Offline Hooligan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 889
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2003, 06:34:42 PM »
Udet:

You named yourself after a Nazi official who commited suicide.  Pardon me if your Infatuation with Rudel fails to either surprise or impress me.

Hooligan

Offline udet

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2242
      • http://www.angelfire.com/nd/mihaipruna/dogfight.html
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2003, 06:40:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hooligan
Udet:

You named yourself after a Nazi official who commited suicide.  Pardon me if your Infatuation with Rudel fails to either surprise or impress me.

Hooligan


LOL. Udet was a tragic figure in the context of Nazi Germany, but also the socnd highest ranking ace in WW1.

Offline Animal

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5027
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2003, 06:43:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by udet
LOL. Udet was a tragic figure in the context of Nazi Germany, but also the socnd highest ranking ace in WW1.


Wasnt Hitler also a hero in WW1?
:p

C'mon, admit it. You are a goosestepper.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2003, 08:44:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
I thought this would be a thread about Saburo Sakai or Adolf Galland...

Both of whom were honorable and gallant men and great pilots. They were both examples of men fighting for their countries, not the politicsof their countries.  They were our enemies, but they conducted themselves in such a fashion that when the war was over we could accept them as friends.

The same cannot be said of Rudel.  Not in the slightest.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Torque

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2003, 08:46:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by udet
sorry, I choose to believe his diary over your sources.
After all, history is written by winners, not losers.
Besides, Rudel's fight happened mainly against the Soviets, and being very succesful at that he holds a very special place in my heart, just like Erik Harman:)


Ok then why are you reading history written by the loser?

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2003, 08:58:25 PM »
I got a few dozen pictures of the Nazi death camps if anyone wants to see 'em.  Man, those SS dudes really knew their stuff.  I bet they were the best prison guards EV-ER!  :rolleyes:

Shuckins

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4287
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2003, 09:05:46 PM »
Werner Molders is the only true hero out of that entire regime.

He scored an amazing tally of victories in a few months spread and then went on to speak out against the third reich declaring it a heinous regime. He was also the most highly decorated Wehrmacht serviceman in November 1941, yet wore none of his medals because of his beliefs. He was on his way to Ernst Udet's funeral when the He111 he was in crashed near Breslau, this was just following his denouncement of the Nazi regime.
-SW

Offline vorticon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7935
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2003, 09:28:15 PM »
how was rudel not honorable or gallant???im still trying to find where he in anyway supports the nazi party in stuka pilot...


mention politics at all...anyway anyone who can survive a war in a stuka (i know he finished in a 109...) deserves some respect...

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2003, 10:01:33 PM »
Vort,

The tales of wartime exploits related by ex-German/Nazi heroes should always be taken with a grain of salt.  They were largely the product of the Nazi propaganda machine, which fabricated much of this drivel to perpetuate the myth of the Aryan superman.  Thirty-four German aces are credited with scoring 150 or more kills in aerial combat.  According to official records, they shot down 6,902 enemy aircraft.  If memory serves, the Russians admit to losing 80,000 aircraft in combat on the Eastern Front.  Thus, these 34 men shot down nearly 9% of all Russian aircraft destroyed in combat.  The top 100 German aces are credited with shooting down an incredible 14,000 aircraft.

These outrageous claims are often transparent when compared to actual losses.  A top German ace in North Africa, Hans Joachim Marseille I believe it was, once put in a claim of seventeen British aircraft shot down.  Records for British losses on that day indicate that only eleven aircraft were lost, including a couple of Hurricanes, a type which he did not even put in a clain for.  (Figures taken from Martin Caidin's book Me 109.).


Regards, Shuckins

Offline udet

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2242
      • http://www.angelfire.com/nd/mihaipruna/dogfight.html
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2003, 10:07:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
how was rudel not honorable or gallant???im still trying to find where he in anyway supports the nazi party in stuka pilot...


mention politics at all...anyway anyone who can survive a war in a stuka (i know he finished in a 109...) deserves some respect...



he's right. Prove to me that Rudel took part in any war crimes. I'd say, he deserved to live through the war and prosper after it.
The same cannot be said about Robert Johnson, an American, fighter pilot, who in his book Thunderbolt nonchalantly admits shooting at a German pilot trying to bail out from his plane, just because the guy had put up a good fight. I prefer a 'Nazi' like Rudel to a red-blooded American 'hero' like Johnson any day!!!

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2003, 10:16:45 PM »
You are just a pc of **** then, basically.

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2003, 10:18:41 PM »
Robert S. Johnson killed a highly skilled German pilot because, as he explained it, he knew that pilot would undoubtedly shoot down (read kill) several more American or Allied planes.  If he wasn't in his chute, he was fair game.  It was WAR, Udet, with little room for chivalry when lives were at stake.

I'm sure some of these Luftwaffe pilots were honorable men.  But the bottom line is this;  their reputation is tarnished by the fact that they defended, quite often with few objections, and evil, murderous regime.  Nothing positive is accomplished by heaping and inordinate amount of praise on them.

Shuckins

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4287
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2003, 10:18:43 PM »
Johnson killed a pilot trying to bail out.

Rudel bombed tanks, convoys, and strafed men.

Yeah, it balances out.
-SW

Offline Gadfly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1364
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2003, 10:26:22 PM »
It is not that there is no redemption for the persons who worked to extend the Evil of Hitler; just do not try and exculpiate them based upon their abilites.

They were wrong to do what they did, no matter what their skill.  Many worked to make amends, some did not, Rudel among them.

I can admire his skill and detest his person, there is no dichotomy with that.

Offline ramzey

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3223
reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2003, 10:31:07 PM »
rudel was nazi and he was proud of that
he had privilaes and look at enemy without respect, like on animals

is he write about strafing civilians on the road when they escaping?
How proud he was  bombing civilians in warsaw?

are you so blinde to not notice , every his word have nazi propaganda background?

when he publice his book, many RAF combatants was angry
but cant do nothing against this knight in black armour.

He was good pilot? fine
he was scum, thats sure


ramzey