Author Topic: How many people did Fidel Castro murder?  (Read 3939 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2003, 12:21:32 AM »
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Originally posted by Regular
 LOL GRUNHERZ= fat boy  on leather chair talking about politics on his fast pc. Latino Girls laugh at you in Cali in the lunch room?


Nice!  :rolleyes:

You know at one point in my life I might have been angry at you for making fun of my weight, but now all I feel is pity for you.

Have a happy Thanksgiving, I hope you enjoy your family gathering and have a great time - perhaps it will be of help to you.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2003, 12:25:52 AM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline NUKE

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2003, 12:21:32 AM »
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Originally posted by Regular
LOL GRUNHERZ= fat boy  on leather chair talking about politics.


A comment like yours deserves nothing more than YOU being banned from the BB. What point do you have?

Grunhertz seems to be a pretty intelligent guy to me, while you seem  very dim.

Offline NUKE

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2003, 12:25:08 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Nice!  :rolleyes:


Grun, he registered in 2000 and has 91 posts...... he really thinks long and hard before he posts such inspiring material.

My guess is that he's a moron.

Offline Regular

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2003, 12:29:20 AM »
Happy Thanksgiving !

Offline Montezuma

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2003, 12:48:51 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You make jokes about their reasons for fleeing Cuba in such dangerous ways. Thousands risk their lives, their families lives , their childrens lives on 90 milies of open ocean, sharks, deadly currents and the Cuban military and you make jokes.. :(


Maybe if we had a policy of sending them back they wouldn't risk it.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #80 on: November 27, 2003, 12:52:35 AM »
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Maybe if we had a policy of sending them back they wouldn't risk it.


So let me get this right, you blame the USA for these people making the decision to flee a dictatorship?

Offline NUKE

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2003, 12:56:10 AM »
Why is it that the people that say citizens are "happy" due to the "benifits" of a communist/dictatorship system fail to mention the fact that the citizens risk their lives just to try to escape?

East Germany was such a paradise that the Russians had to make a wall and shoot people who tried to leave.

If Cuba is so great, why is there a penalty for trying to leave it?

Offline Dowding

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2003, 03:13:33 AM »
Within 10 years Cuba will be a holiday destination for Yanks.

Brits have never had restrictions on going to Cuba; my parents went last year and loved it. I can see the tourism angle being very lucrative for the island in the near future.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2003, 03:23:31 AM »
One thing that I dont agree with is the embargo.  Unless there some secret reason behind it the only cause for it I see is the political influence of the Florida Cuban community.  It just doesnt make senses since the USA has normal relations even with Vietnam, a US navy ship just visted Saigon/HCMC and of course we had normal realtions with USSR which was just as responsible or more for the missle crisis as was Castro. Not to mention china as well.

But still I hope you guys dan understand my unesyness when I see praise for Cuba's health system - its no different for me than saying that the trains ran on time in Italy under Musollini.

Offline SaburoS

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2003, 04:13:19 AM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
One thing that I dont agree with is the embargo.  Unless there some secret reason behind it the only cause for it I see is the political influence of the Florida Cuban community.  It just doesnt make senses since the USA has normal relations even with Vietnam, a US navy ship just visted Saigon/HCMC and of course we had normal realtions with USSR which was just as responsible or more for the missle crisis as was Castro. Not to mention china as well.

But still I hope you guys dan understand my unesyness when I see praise for Cuba's health system - its no different for me than saying that the trains ran on time in Italy under Musollini.


Nothing wrong with your questioning what's going on at all :)
I also agree that the embargo (and blacklisting) of Cuba is kind of hypocritical since we allow free trade with China. Nice to see we're relaxing against Vietnam.
However, none of us here actually live in Cuba both under Batista AND Castro so we can't say for sure what's being reported is propaganda or fact. Are all socialized programs the same? Is the socialized medical care under Castro the same as that under former Yugoslavia the same as the present Canada? Animal claims to have visited there so I'd take his word over one that hasn't as far as attitudes go. Apparently the Cuban people haven't shared their fear of their medical care.
BTW, how many Haitian refugees try to escape from Haiti compared to Cuban refugees from Cuba? Why are the Hatians usually sent back while the Cuban refugees are almost always accepted?
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #85 on: November 27, 2003, 04:34:49 AM »
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Originally posted by SaburoS
Nothing wrong with your questioning what's going on at all :)
I also agree that the embargo (and blacklisting) of Cuba is kind of hypocritical since we allow free trade with China. Nice to see we're relaxing against Vietnam.
However, none of us here actually live in Cuba both under Batista AND Castro so we can't say for sure what's being reported is propaganda or fact. Are all socialized programs the same? Is the socialized medical care under Castro the same as that under former Yugoslavia the same as the present Canada? Animal claims to have visited there so I'd take his word over one that hasn't as far as attitudes go. Apparently the Cuban people haven't shared their fear of their medical care.
BTW, how many Haitian refugees try to escape from Haiti compared to Cuban refugees from Cuba? Why are the Hatians usually sent back while the Cuban refugees are almost always accepted?


Prolly for the same reason as the emargo.

The problem i have with Animal's visit to cuba is that he was a tourist - an outsider with an outsiders view  that can never match that of a person living there.

In Yugoslavia I grew up in a small town where fishing and tourism - especially tourism were the big industries. So every summer thousands of tourists from all over europe would come there to our town on vacation living in hotels and even in peoples homes as every local house rented out rooms.  And these people simply did not experience what it was like to live there the whole year as a citizen. For example they had very little interaction with the police, but you should see the mood change on local people when the police showed up in town - there was just something ominous about it. Plus the toursits knew very little about the secret police and the political thugs - because it was very dangerous to talk about them to anyone.  So from my perspective I cant really put much weight into Animal's vistis to cuba, I know how people under an opressive communist police state behave around tourists  - I lived it. Sorry Animal, Im sure you will dismiss this as it comes from me, but in all honesty you only saw part of the picture in your visits.

You simply have to come to the question that if all is so great in Cuba why does Castro keep censoring the media and suppresing democratic movents and not allowing elections. If, as you say the people love him so honestly an open free election would be a simple thing to do to confirm it. Yet castro does not. If he has provided such nice things should he not expect that his citizens would reward him in an open election?  and thats the problem aninal, the Cubans arent free, they have limited righrts, limited acess to information, and few choices as the state provides and so controls so  many daily needs.

What I feel is that you as somebody who has enjoyed prosparity and democracy your whole life simply take it for granted and dont value it as much as me who had to do come to another country to have that democracy be a choice for me. To that end, I think that you are limited in perspective.

Offline Animal

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #86 on: November 27, 2003, 12:02:37 PM »
I visisted Cuba in 2001 with a student group, and we stayed for a week and a half, living in dorms at the Universidad de la Habana.

Most of the students there are VERY pro Castro; brainwashed as far as I could tell. But most of them were pretty respectful of what we had to say, althought we didnt say much, except to answer all of their questions (LOTS). Sometimes they talked with some awful misconceptions of the world outside, and I corrected them slightly.

I did travel outside the university, on my own, with a few other students. I used the bus system and visited a few local towns. I certainly did not look like a tourist, and tried not to act like one. Maybe they recognized me a few times. But its not like I look out of place in Cuba :p
Its like going back in time, everything is old. But not once did I see famine or something that made me feel sad, like in Dominican Republic or Mexico.

Children LOVE sports in Cuba, and thats pretty much all they do when they are not at school. Play baseball, etc. In the poor parts of Dominican Republic or Mexico, kids dont have the luxury of  playing much sports or even going to school. You cant go twenty yards walking without some kids begging you for money or food.

I'll try to get some pics scanned later.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2003, 12:04:59 PM by Animal »

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2003, 04:38:14 PM »
Animal,

I'm sure communist countries can look nice, the governemt can always spernd money on diversions and activities especially for children - thats how they suck children in. In Yugoslavia we had lots of sports and youth political indoctorination by the state.  But look what those kids gave up, they were brainwashed like you said. And the ones you met arent the  only ones as the government runs all the schools. You see how everyone could then tell you they were happy?  You give up your mind and your freedom for some promise of material goods, thats what communism has always been doing. BTW they knew you were tourist and definitely an "outsider" from 10 miles away, even speaking the same language or looking ethnically the same the locals can spot you instantly and in most cases secretly make fun of you, love your money but hate your guts for bothering them. ;)

Offline Thrawn

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #88 on: November 27, 2003, 05:08:53 PM »
Grun, you're acting like a tool.  Animal has actually been to Cuba, you haven't.  

It's like you are debating LOTR with someone who's seen, when you haven't.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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How many people did Fidel Castro murder?
« Reply #89 on: November 27, 2003, 05:43:55 PM »
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Grun, you're acting like a tool.  Animal has actually been to Cuba, you haven't.  

It's like you are debating LOTR with someone who's seen, when you haven't.


But I'm telling from my experiencs as somebody who lived in a communist country and had experiences with tourists visting us that Animal did not see the full extent of it - it just doesnt work that way. He visited for a lil bit and now he thinks he knows everything. I visited Vancouver this summer, would you feel it appropriate that I make sweeping conclusions about Canada from what goes on around Granville street?

And I understand how you dont get the whole dictorship angle here either - living as you have been in a free open society your whole life.  

As for being a tool, I'm not the one waxing poetic about Castro's health care and sports programs.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2003, 05:47:26 PM by GRUNHERZ »