Author Topic: Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few .... (Read 11655 times)

daddog · « **Reply #105 on:** December 11, 2003, 02:08:36 PM »

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Now, I've never personally met the man, but I hear good things about him.

I would just like to say two things.

I have met Lazs, and I like him. A lot.

Ok.. that was 3 things.

Sparks · « **Reply #106 on:** December 12, 2003, 02:50:42 AM »

I'll try to be breif

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sparks... so you agree with everything I say you just don'tlike the way I say it?

Most of what you say in terms of fuel porking but otherwise - correct.

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I'm not too fond of the british wall-O-words posts either but what are ya gonna do?

The usual anti-british jab and in-yer-face bar room taunt - Its not my BBS - I'm going to do absolutely nothing.

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point is... the strat girls need the furballers... they need to have an effect on the noble furballers or their presence in the game has no meaning... we would all ignore them.

No we don't need you in fact, if as you say, you only want to fight other Furballers then you only confuse the picture and get in the way.

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The strat element wants to effect the fighters. The fighter element never advocates having an effedt on the strat players.

Complete bollocks - the strat element wants to play the game as supplied - I'm not interesting in porking fuel because it will ruin someones fun - that is absurd. Fighter pilots do however use thousands of perk points to up 163's to take down my buffs which are doing nothing you are interested in ????

Just answer two questions:-
1. If it is such a problem what is wrong with two arenas with the same terrain on the same rotation - one for strat play and one with unkillable resources?
2. AH has been a strategic game since I've been playing it (early beta). After all this time why do you think HTC haven't done away with strat or at least built in a furball area in the arena??

Sparks

Toad · « **Reply #107 on:** December 12, 2003, 08:48:47 AM »

Sparks, I really think most of the problem would go away if the huge imbalance between fuel destruction and fuel resupply were fixed.

I'm not a strat guy, but I'm certainly not aware of any other "strat feature" of the game where on guy can make two passes and knock a resource down to 25% AND where it then takes 1 guy 7 sorites (or 7 guys one sortie) to bring that resource back up to just 50%.

Where else is this disproportionate effort required? One guy flattens the fuel at a small base in 10-15 minutes and it takes 7 10-15 minute sorties to resupply up to just 50%?

There's the problem, I think.

muckmaw · « **Reply #108 on:** December 12, 2003, 08:56:05 AM »

What about a concession, here, Toad?

Instead of changing resupply, what if the fuel tanks were put underground, and required 500lbs of ordinance to destroy?

(BTW, what is their hardness now?)

My point is, something like this could serve a double purpose. It would bring heavy bombers back into the game, requiring people to either learn how to bomb, or stop all together.

Heaving bombing is too time consuming for dweebs who suicide just to watch things 'splode. Add to this a change in bombers where you cannot drop in a climb or dive and we're fixing 2 problems at once.

Furballers fuel is safer from all the but the better bomber pilots. Bombers get put back in the game.

Add some more fuel tanks also, so that it requires more teamwork to kill the fuel.

Just a thought.

Overlag · « **Reply #109 on:** December 12, 2003, 09:53:11 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Sparks, I really think most of the problem would go away if the huge imbalance between fuel destruction and fuel resupply were fixed.

I'm not a strat guy, but I'm certainly not aware of any other "strat feature" of the game where on guy can make two passes and knock a resource down to 25% AND where it then takes 1 guy 7 sorites (or 7 guys one sortie) to bring that resource back up to just 50%.

Where else is this disproportionate effort required? One guy flattens the fuel at a small base in 10-15 minutes and it takes 7 10-15 minute sorties to resupply up to just 50%?

There's the problem, I think.

defend the bloody resources in the first place and you wouldnt have to resupply it

beet1e · « **Reply #110 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:00:34 AM »

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Originally posted by Overlag
defend the bloody resources in the first place and you wouldnt have to resupply it

^^ SHACK!

... or whatever that bloody furballer code word is. Overlag beat me to it. As I have said, further up this thread, another way of looking at it is that it only takes one guy to fly a buff formation to do some major damage - far more than a lone fighter could do - but then it only need take one guy flying something like a F6F or F4U to stop him.

Toad · « **Reply #111 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:04:23 AM »

Muck, your answer is to make it take as long to reduce fuel 25% as it does to resupply it 25%?

Interesting.. so given that it takes seven 10-15 minute sorties to resupply 25%, you now want it to take twenty-one 10-15 minute sorties to take fuel from 100% to 25% using jabos? Or a commensurate amount of effort from multiple heavy bomber sorties?

Be interesting to see how the strat oriented folks react to that suggestion.

Overlag, LOL!

Let's see YOU defend a field against diving fuel suiciders!

Go ahead, answer the original question:

Where else in the game is their such an imbalance between destruction and resupply?

Then we'll talk.

Same to you Beet. There's a huge imbalance and you folks choose to ignore it. If it took one 1 hour bomber sortie to level country radar and seven hours of resupply to bring it back up 25%, I'm thinking you wouldn't even try to defend or ignore such an imbalance. Yet do routinely ignore the fuel destruction/resupply imbalance. It's laughable.

Overlag · « **Reply #112 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:08:03 AM »

Toad, There only imposible to get once they've started there dive... Defend the base's sector and dont even let them get near it

problem solved.

And about the resupply... I thought this game was suppose to be (slightly) realistic? In real life the same goes...blow something up, and it takes weeks/months/years to rebuild....

WTC fell in under 2 hours
Did they resupply it and rebuild it in 2 hours?

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Originally posted by Toad

Same to you Beet. There's a huge imbalance and you folks choose to ignore it. If it took one 1 hour bomber sortie to level country radar and seven hours of resupply to bring it back up 25%, I'm thinking you wouldn't even try to defend or ignore such an imbalance. Yet do routinely ignore the fuel
destruction/resupply imbalance. It's laughable.

err Hello? it takes 2 hours lets say on a large map to get to the HQ, it takes 10 minutes for it to be rebuilt. Is that balanced towards the strat guy? NO thats balanced to you whiny furballers because without dar you cant find your useless to the "war effort" furball.

Toad · « **Reply #113 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:18:14 AM »

The destruction/resupply equation is a huge imbalance. It's a flaw.

You can't get around that fact.

Given the lemming hordes, there's no defending fuel. It's far to easy to destroy and essentially impossible to defend from suicide jabo's. It's pointless.

Further, strategically, the BARRACKS is far more important to "winning the war" than fuel. Yet you don't see the porking of troops, do you?

Where fuel is important is when some folks try to avoid any sort of opposition.

I can see where this would be a vital interest to some.

lazs2 · « **Reply #114 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:19:06 AM »

beeetle..... you called me a pansy? I knew we shoulda wrist wrestled when you were here

But we are getting away from the important things here... What kind of a childhood would be so terrible that when that child grew up he would want to do ..... strat?

Make it so the fuel can never go below 50% or perk bombs. you can't stop people from being griefers or stop em from being talentless but you can make it LESS profitable for them.

lazs

Overlag · « **Reply #115 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:21:41 AM »

i wont defend suicide jabo's, they are the scum of the earth.

but theres no way that the destruction/resupply equation is a huge imbalance.

The whole point of this game is to defend and attack.

without fuel you cant defend.

Im sure you must be flying a different game because i dont have too much trouble defending bases, but then im not stuck in a furball under 3k

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #116 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:24:43 AM »

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Originally posted by Overlag
And about the resupply... I thought this game was suppose to be (slightly) realistic? In real life the same goes...blow something up, and it takes weeks/months/years to rebuild....

WTC fell in under 2 hours
Did they resupply it and rebuild it in 2 hours?

What is it with the horrible analogies lately? Good God.

There's nothing realistic about suicidally plowing into a ground target and then magically and instantly reincarnating to go do it again and again and again. Quality gameplay depends on balance, and an obvious imbalance deserves attention. It doesn't matter if ground targets required minutes, days, or years to repair in real life when you're talking about issues of balance between effective ground attack and air combat in a game.

Worry more about the fidelity of the flight models and the realism of the dive bombing process, but the strat game in Aces High is pure, unadulterated fantasy.

Edit: Sorry, Overlag, I responded before you edited your last reply.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Toad · « **Reply #117 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:27:01 AM »

No imbalance?

Back to the original question.

Where else in the "strat" game can one person knock a resource down to minimum and it then takes seven times as much time/effort to resupply that resource up just 25%?

lazs2 · « **Reply #118 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:39:31 AM »

overlag... the reason you will never get it is because you think it is not "hard" to defend. I don't know how well you defend but I do know that you are paying a terrible price for it with less than 5 kills per hour and less than 1 kill per sortie.

furballers simply will not pay that price. Can I put it any simpler?

the defense that you find fun would bore us to tears... worse... most of us just leave. we leave after we look around for another good fight.. not a place to defend or attack.... a good fite... we don't care who takes the base so long as there is another fight to go to...

lazs

Overlag · « **Reply #119 on:** December 12, 2003, 10:45:39 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
No imbalance?

Back to the original question.

Where else in the "strat" game can one person knock a resource down to minimum and it then takes seven times as much time/effort to resupply that resource up just 25%?

it only takes one person to defend that resource, and since you cant be botherd to defend it, you say its unfair?

and how is it seven times as much time/effort to resupply?

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Originally posted by lazs2
overlag... the reason you will never get it is because you think it is not "hard" to defend. I don't know how well you defend but I do know that you are paying a terrible price for it with less than 5 kills per hour and less than 1 kill per sortie.

furballers simply will not pay that price. Can I put it any simpler?

the defense that you find fun would bore us to tears... worse... most of us just leave. we leave after we look around for another good fight.. not a place to defend or attack.... a good fite... we don't care who takes the base so long as there is another fight to go to...

lazs

well the price you have to pay is having no fuel then. Dont whine about balance......

You guys are just like the Counterstrike players that put me off that, you dont care about objectives, and when someone does, they are lamers, campers or some other stupid name.

People that try and play the game the way its ment to be played are wrong and you "no objectives matter" type players are always right.

If you dont want to defend targets, dont whine when they die.

thanks