Author Topic: Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....  (Read 11029 times)

Offline Overlag

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2003, 05:09:24 AM »
i realy dont under stand why furballers hate strat guys....

to a good furballer, a buff formation is 3 "easy" kills.........

Strat seems pointless to me though, even though im a strat guy. You know, i fly to a HQ in 2hours + kill it off and its fully working again before i even land sometime, even if the city supplying it is at 0% like what happend the other day... that sucks.

Bombing fuel factorys etc should effect all fields ammount imo...
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline beet1e

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2003, 05:24:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
I rarely agree with lazs in the O'Club..but Sparks, what he is saying about the game is summed up nicely in the above quote.

You guys that bomb bases down to 25% fuel all across the front inpinge on those of us who fly to get into dogfights.  You simply make it boring for us.
Curv, the people who do fuel porks are not strat players, they are tardz. One of the reasons I like better field spacing is because the tardz get bored and forget why they took off if they have to fly more than 5 minutes to do a fuel pork run.

Offline Overlag

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2003, 06:59:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
I rarely agree with lazs in the O'Club..but Sparks, what he is saying about the game is summed up nicely in the above quote.

You guys that bomb bases down to 25% fuel all across the front inpinge on those of us who fly to get into dogfights.  You simply make it boring for us.

How do furballers make things boring for you strat guys?  Answer..they don't.  

The problem is that the "fun" that many of you strat guys seem to have is simply to make it boring for the rest of us.  THAT is lazs' point and why he jabs you guys with insults.


isnt the point of this game to take bases?
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
This post has a Krusty rating of 37

Offline SLO

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2003, 07:55:59 AM »
I see 30k crooks....I pork there alt. fuel.

I see 30 nitwits hittin 1 of my bases....I go pork there strat.

I feel like furballing...no problem...there is always a senseless

Furball somewhere.:aok

don't like it....come stop me:D

Laz is right for 1 point though.....If its so easy to pork fuels...it should be easy to resup. it....instead of 8 trips.....say 2.

Offline Mini D

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2003, 08:00:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
I rarely agree with lazs in the O'Club..but Sparks, what he is saying about the game is summed up nicely in the above quote.

You guys that bomb bases down to 25% fuel all across the front inpinge on those of us who fly to get into dogfights.  You simply make it boring for us.

How do furballers make things boring for you strat guys?  Answer..they don't.  

The problem is that the "fun" that many of you strat guys seem to have is simply to make it boring for the rest of us.  THAT is lazs' point and why he jabs you guys with insults.
This is twisted and distorted pongo.  Lazs' argument is flawed.

If "furballers" truly just wanted to be left alone, they'd just go to an arena where they were left alone.  Why don't they?  It's a simply question that no "furballer" has ever answered honestly.

Not wanting to fight in the war is no excuse for feeling the war is too impacting on you.  Not wanting to climb to over 5k in the MA is not a reason to claim it is impossible to stop a fighter attacking a base from 6k.  Not wanting to defend a CV does not give you the right to verbally assault someone for sinking it.

There's some fundamentally flawed arguements being presented and accepted.  THERE IS "A WAR" IN THE MA.  IT AFFECTS EVERYONE PLAYING IN IT.  SIMPLY CHOSING NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN IT SHOULD NOT MAKE YOU IMMUNE FROM IT'S AFFECTS.

Impact is another story, but it never really stays on that.  Suiciding is another issue, but it never really stays there either.  The truth is, people just want to blame everyone else for every problem, boredom or general issue they have with the game.

MiniD

Offline lazs2

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2003, 08:06:50 AM »
overlag... you miss the point.. 3 fluff kills are, as you say, 3 easy kills but it is like killing toolsheds..  we don't like killing toolshjeds..

We like to fight other fighters.   And no... we don't like the fight spread over two sectors.

sparks... it was you who singled me out personaly... you even named the thread after me... you are the one who takes and makes things personal.

This is all fine as I am a shallow and insensive person but..  what was your point?   I am mean to the mouse weilders?    Ok, I am... now what?   address my points.   Have a point yourself...  

Besides... how right can you be?  jakal agrees with you.  

but go ahead...  start another thread with your ideas..  this one doesn't seem to be working out for you..  as you say, 99% of us don't get it.   In our ignorance we just thought it was another strat sissy making another humorless personal attack to cover his frustration and shame at not being able to fly with the noble furballers.

oh... and deja/mini...  I do stick to the "impact" point.   And... I do stick to the "map opportunities" point.  

Lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
« Last Edit: December 10, 2003, 08:09:35 AM by lazs2 »

Offline SlapShot

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2003, 08:44:10 AM »
There is a fundamental disconnect here ...

overlag says ... "i realy dont under stand why furballers hate strat guys...."

I don't think that we hate the strat guys ... we just dislike the tactics of .... "Curv, the people who do fuel porks are not strat players, they are tardz." Thanks for that description beet1e.

These tardz are associated with the "strat" guys. Their "strat" objective is to climb out to altitude - put the nose down and plow thru the defense - wack the fuel - die immediately thereafter. The consequence of their actions cannot be so easily reversed.

The other situation that can piss people off is when there is a good CV battle of the coast, sides are pretty even and there is no real advance on the base ... just good fights. Someone must sink the CV regardless. Now if the CV fighters are making a strong advance to the base, then sink the bastage ... until then let the fur fly.

MiniD says ... "If "furballers" truly just wanted to be left alone, they'd just go to an arena where they were left alone. Why don't they? It's a simply question that no "furballer" has ever answered honestly."

Here is my answer ...

The reason that I don't want to go to another arena (DA I presume is the underlying intent here) is largely due to the fact that the MA brings many more external variables to the fight. Many different altitudes to engage at and different land formations (hills, valleys, canyons, etc.) that can be used to one's advantage. Nothing better that dragging a few fighters into a canyon and mixing it up within the walls. The MA presents many more different fight scenarios than the DA could ever present.
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Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline Mini D

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2003, 09:18:23 AM »
Quote
The reason that I don't want to go to another arena (DA I presume is the underlying intent here) is largely due to the fact that the MA brings many more external variables to the fight. Many different altitudes to engage at and different land formations (hills, valleys, canyons, etc.) that can be used to one's advantage. Nothing better that dragging a few fighters into a canyon and mixing it up within the walls. The MA presents many more different fight scenarios than the DA could ever present.
BS.  Pure and simple.  You're dancing around it.  Get to the heart of the matter.

MiniD

Offline Jackal1

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2003, 09:28:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

Besides... how right can you be?  jakal agrees with you.  
Lazs
Public Misinformation Officer for the BK's


  You really need to go back and freshen up on them comprehension lessons. :D
  Not agreeing/disagreeing with anyone in this thread.
  Read it real slooooooooooowwwww. What I said , Humpy, was you are sad, talentless and attention starved.  
  I didn`t even mention the game. :D :rofl
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Sparks

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2003, 09:55:49 AM »
Here was my point from the end of the last thread
Quote

I like a more strategic ENTIRE game and that does not make me different or lesser than anyone else


Originally quoted by Lazs
Quote
you are the one who takes and makes things personal.


Yes I did and I have for two reasons:-
1. You have made yourself the champion of this cause by repeatedly either starting or enflaming this discussion.
2. After such a long period of being labeled abnormal and sad etc (probably into years thinking about it) then it stops being a humourous jab and becomes something deeper.

OK - so to address your points .........
I agree that you should be able to log on and pick an aircraft of your choice with the fuel load of your choice and fly.  The current fuel porking contest is absurd IMHO.  Jabo attacks should not be able to turn an airfield from fully up to unusable in 3 minutes. This just promotes horde raids and a steam roller numbers game.
However because of the current strat setup you want to split the MA into two separate games - fighter furball and Bomber airways.
Neither one can affect the other.  
This makes the assumption (and there are plenty of stories on this BBS suposedly backing this up) that furballs are starting at some point between[/i] two feilds and maintaining some kind of balance until some strat guy comes in behind everyones back and porks the field. I my experience I have not seen that.  A furball breaks out when one group attacks a field and the home group sucessfully defend it. But the whole time the furball is going people are trying to get in to pork the other sides fuel to take advantage.  In your version of furballs being destroyed by the actions of others I would expect to see no advance towards the oppositions airfield and minimal attempts to pork the others fuel.  That simply doesn't happen.
That seems to suggest to me that either furballers do there own share of porking or there aren't as many pure furballers out there as you might think.
I'd like to know how many of those raising their hands as pure furballers, who only log on to look for an air to air fight, can say they have not straffed a fuel tank or ammo bunker.

So I say you can't split the game like that in the same arena - too many people want to play the full spectrum. If that wasn't true then the DA would be fuller than now.  If you and so many others are having such a problem in the MA and there is already a place to fly without those restrictions then why hasn't there been a migration to the DA - as said by someone else on this thread that has never been answered.

If you are not interested in a war game or strategy then why have it at all ?? Why do you want to mix it in the same arena ?? To me that seems pointlessly complex.

Ok so then the shout goes up "see you just want the furballers out of the MA - you want to stop them playing".  Not true - as I said before you have as much right to do what you want as I do to do what I want.  I am basing my argument that this is a strat game on what the game producers say and build - and that is a Main Arena with all vehicles and options and a strat system AND a clear statement on their web page on what the game is.  That seems to be at odds at the moment with the push here on the BBS for a more fighter based game.

This is why I said HTC needs to step in and clarify the direction things are taking and timescales.

If the MA is to go furball and the strat is to go to another arena then thats fine by me but lets know and lets see what the system in the new arena would be - whether its AH2 or whatever.

The system I would like to see would be one that works on airfield supply and usage and move the strat element away from  airfield attack as the means of restricting resource.  Go back towards depots and resupply routes and set up airfield stock levels and resupply rates so if you log on and go to a feild and there is 200 gals of fuel in the tanks and you need 200 gals for full tanks you can take it.  The idea is more involved than that but it is the basic premise.  However there would still be an impact on furballers but not the same as there is now and hopefully acceptable.

Lastly I take your point about being shallow and insensitive and not caring about your attitude to people who wish to play the game their way and not yours - I'll bear that in mind.  In the end its up to HTC how far they let things go and for how long but I think it's creating divisions within the users of AH unnecessarily and at the end of the day we are all people.

Sparks

Offline beet1e

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2003, 09:57:16 AM »
Pearls of wisdom (as always) from MiniD on these matters. :aok

Interesting material from Slapshot...
Quote
The other situation that can piss people off is when there is a good CV battle of the coast, sides are pretty even and there is no real advance on the base ... just good fights. Someone must sink the CV regardless. Now if the CV fighters are making a strong advance to the base, then sink the bastage ... until then let the fur fly.
I don't disagree with your sentiments, but don't you feel that you're mandating how other players should play? Dear me, the Furball Committee will have to take this into account when your membership is up for renewal.
Quote
The reason that I don't want to go to another arena (DA I presume is the underlying intent here) is largely due to the fact that the MA brings many more external variables to the fight. Many different altitudes to engage at and different land formations (hills, valleys, canyons, etc.) that can be used to one's advantage. Nothing better that dragging a few fighters into a canyon and mixing it up within the walls.
Hey, great! I think we have a Pizza Map convert! :):cool:

Offline Sparks

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2003, 10:02:27 AM »
SlapShot
Quote
The reason that I don't want to go to another arena (DA I presume is the underlying intent here) is largely due to the fact that the MA brings many more external variables to the fight. Many different altitudes to engage at and different land formations (hills, valleys, canyons, etc.) that can be used to one's advantage. Nothing better that dragging a few fighters into a canyon and mixing it up within the walls. The MA presents many more different fight scenarios than the DA could ever present.


A good point I say but then how about this - would you prefer a single arena with two games or two similar arenas in terms of terrain and features but one labeled Fighter MA and the other Strat MA ??

Sparks

Offline SlapShot

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2003, 10:08:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Pearls of wisdom (as always) from MiniD on these matters. :aok

Interesting material from Slapshot...  I don't disagree with your sentiments, but don't you feel that you're mandating how other players should play? Dear me, the Furball Committee will have to take this into account when your membership is up for renewal.  Hey, great! I think we have a Pizza Map convert! :):cool:


Your such an *** kisser ...  ;) MiniD has a lot of good imput but I wouldn't go as far as ... "always".

I am not mandating ... I am asking/suggesting ... When the CV is sunk just for the sake of sinking while MANY are having fun ... that is "mandating" thru action.

I don't dislike AKDessert nor do I like it ... as much as some other maps. I think that it needs some tweaks and color changes and it will be fine. If I had my druthers, it would be Mindano that hits the bit-bucket.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline LePaul

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2003, 10:12:48 AM »
Since when are the strat/bomber guys porking fuels to 25%?  How many times have you been waiting to up from a base and you see the lone P-38 or P-51 dive down, bomb/rocket fuels, and auger?  Then voila, fuel 25%.  I've seen it many times.

I can't speak for other bombers but my sorties are multi-sector and are usually targetting cities...since by time I get there, the fights already on.

You need to realize that there are people like  myself, Muck, Cajun and others who enjoy hitting strategic targets.  Cities, hangars, fleets, etc.  

You also have the jabo/suicide idiots who take buffs NOE, attempt to pancake what they can with as many bombs as possible, die, then repeat the process.

As for Lazs colorful metaphors....he's been calling us those names forever.  Whenever we throw mud back his way, he cries foul.  

Like MiniD has said many times, Lazs skirts the questions and issues.  

Apparently, he has HiTech's ear tho...Lazs wanted buffs made ineffective and HiTech delivered.  Most of the guys I used to up into bomber formations with gave em up.

Offline SlapShot

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Ref "the Lazs MA strat idea" - oh to one of the "talented" few ....
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2003, 10:15:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
BS.  Pure and simple.  You're dancing around it.  Get to the heart of the matter.

MiniD


That is no BS Mini ... those are the main reason why (for me).

You appear to be trying to play the bait-and-catch game here ... if your waiting for me to "get to the heart of the matter", that leads me to believe that you already have a good idea or have formed an opinon as to what the "heart" is ... so lets hear it.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."