Author Topic: Too Funny! France and Germany are upset  (Read 6320 times)

Offline Dago

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« on: December 10, 2003, 10:07:48 AM »
Quote
PARIS (Reuters) - France and Germany responded defiantly Wednesday to a U.S. decision to bar their firms from competing for prime contracts to rebuild Iraq (news - web sites), a move which could open a new rift in troubled transatlantic relations.
 
(like we give a crap)

The United States unveiled plans Tuesday to limit competition for 26 reconstruction contracts in Iraq worth up to $18.6 billion, excluding countries such as Germany, France and Russia which opposed the war.

France said it would study whether the U.S. move was legal and Germany said it could not accept the U.S. decision.  


As if there is anything they could do about it, what a bunch of greedy turds.  I know, go complain to the UN, and we can veto your resolutions.

dago
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Offline kappa

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Re: Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2003, 10:11:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
As if there is anything they could do about it, what a bunch of greedy turds.  I know, go complain to the UN, and we can veto your resolutions.

dago


Thats great.. then they can veto ours..

Another excellent example on our president being a uniter and not a divider...

k
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Offline vorticon

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2003, 10:13:00 AM »
why would they want to...it wasnt there war why should they be upset if they dont have to clean up after it...its like importing greeks to clean up after a parade held in new york...

Offline ravells

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2003, 10:13:39 AM »
If Iraqi money is going to be spent on the reconstruction, shouldn't an interim Iraqi government decide who gets the contracts?

Ravs

Offline Tarmac

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2003, 10:16:07 AM »
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Originally posted by ravells
If Iraqi money is going to be spent on the reconstruction, shouldn't an interim Iraqi government decide who gets the contracts?

Ravs


The Bin Laden construction company!

Offline Thrawn

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2003, 10:22:09 AM »
How much are Germany and France putting into the kitty?

It might seem like the US government is taking thier money for Iraq and giving it to US firms exclusively.  If this is the case, then I understand why they might be upset.  If they aren't contributing money, then f*** 'em.

Offline DmdNexus

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2003, 10:27:00 AM »
US goes to war,  many American's die for another stupid Rich man's cause, US congress allocates big bucks to reconstruct Iraq..

Countries who opposed US breaking of international law, such as France, Germany, Russia, and China see an opportunity to make some cash... so they come in, win the contracts, their own people get the work, and get the take the money to their banks.

Makes sense to me. That's  how US government has always worked in the past.

Why not again.

All companies in France, Germany, etc have to do is set up a paper US Subsiduary... and get the contract... then sub-contract out to the parent company back in Europe.

Doh!

Offline Thrawn

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2003, 10:29:24 AM »
"Prime contracts for reconstruction funded by U.S. taxpayer dollars should go to the Iraqi people and those countries who are working with the United States on the difficult task of helping to build a free, democratic and prosperous Iraq," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Wednesday. "

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/12/10/iraqcontracts_031210

US taxpayer dollars?  Makes sense to me.

Offline fd ski

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2003, 10:40:18 AM »
What about the whole donor's conference business about a month ago. They are supposed to chip in "for iraq" because Haliburton isn't quite making enough as it stands ?

WARNING CUT AND PASTE
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/10/international/middleeast/10GAS.html

High Payments to Halliburton for Fuel in Iraq
By DON VAN NATTA Jr.

Published: December 10, 2003


he United States government is paying the Halliburton Company an average of $2.64 a gallon to import gasoline and other fuel to Iraq from Kuwait, more than twice what others are paying to truck in Kuwaiti fuel, government documents show.

Halliburton, which has the exclusive United States contract to import fuel into Iraq, subcontracts the work to a Kuwaiti firm, government officials said. But Halliburton gets 26 cents a gallon for its overhead and fee, according to documents from the Army Corps of Engineers.

The cost of the imported fuel first came to public attention in October when two senior Democrats in Congress criticized Halliburton, the huge Houston-based oil-field services company, for "inflating gasoline prices at a great cost to American taxpayers." At the time, it was estimated that Halliburton was charging the United States government and Iraq's oil-for-food program an average of about $1.60 a gallon for fuel available for 71 cents wholesale.

But a breakdown of fuel costs, contained in Army Corps documents recently provided to Democratic Congressional investigators and shared with The New York Times, shows that Halliburton is charging $2.64 for a gallon of fuel it imports from Kuwait and $1.24 per gallon for fuel from Turkey.

A spokeswoman for Halliburton, Wendy Hall, defended the company's pricing. "It is expensive to purchase, ship, and deliver fuel into a wartime situation, especially when you are limited by short-duration contracting," she said. She said the company's Kellogg Brown & Root unit, which administers the contract, must work in a "hazardous" and "hostile environment," and that its profit on the contract is small.

The price of fuel sold in Iraq, set by the government, is 5 cents to 15 cents a gallon. The price is a political issue, and has not been raised to avoid another hardship for Iraqis.

The Iraqi state oil company and the Pentagon's Defense Energy Support Center import fuel from Kuwait for less than half of Halliburton's price, the records show.

Ms. Hall said Halliburton's subcontractor had had more than 20 trucks damaged or stolen, nine drivers injured and one driver killed when making fuel runs into Iraq.

She said the contract was also expensive because it was hard to find a company with the trucks necessary to move the fuel, and because Halliburton is only able to negotiate a 30-day contract for fuel. "It is not as simple as dropping by a service station for a fill-up," she said.

A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers, Bob Faletti, also defended the price of imported fuel.

"Everyone is talking about high costs, but no one is talking about the dangers, or the number of fuel trucks that have been blown up," Mr. Faletti said. "That's the reason it is so expensive." He said recent government audits had found no improprieties in the Halliburton contract.

Gasoline imports are one of the largest costs of Iraqi reconstruction efforts so far. Although Iraq sits on the third-largest oil reserves in the world, production has been hampered by pipeline sabotage, power failures and an antiquated infrastructure that was hurt by 11 years of United Nations sanctions.

Nearly $500 million has already been spent to bring gas, benzene and other fuels into Iraq, according to the corps. And as part of the $87 billion package for Iraq and Afghanistan that President Bush signed last month, $18.6 billion will be spent on reconstruction projects, including $690 million for gasoline and other fuel imports in 2004.

From May to late October, Halliburton imported about 61 million gallons of fuel from Kuwait and about 179 million from Turkey, at a total cost of more than $383 million.

A company's profits on the transport and sale of gasoline are usually razor-thin, with companies losing contracts if they overbid by half a penny a gallon. Independent experts who reviewed Halliburton's percentage of its gas importation contract said the company's 26-cent charge per gallon of gas from Kuwait appeared to be extremely high.

"I have never seen anything like this in my life," said Phil Verleger, a California oil economist and the president of the consulting firm PK Verleger LLC. "That's a monopoly premium — that's the only term to describe it. Every logistical firm or oil subsidiary in the United States and Europe would salivate to have that sort of contract."

In March, Halliburton was awarded a no-competition contract to repair Iraq's oil industry, and it has already received more than $1.4 billion in work. That award has been the focus of Congressional scrutiny in part because Vice President Dick Cheney is Halliburton's former chief executive officer. As part of its contract, Halliburton began importing fuel in the spring when gasoline was in short supply in large Iraqi cities.

The government's accounting shows that Halliburton paid its Kuwait subcontractor $1.17 a gallon, when it was selling for 71 cents a gallon wholesale in the Middle East.

In addition, Halliburton is paying $1.21 a gallon to transport the fuel an estimated 400 miles from Kuwait to Iraq, the documents show. It is paying 22 cents a gallon to transport gas into Iraq from Turkey.

The 26 cents a gallon it keeps includes a 2-cent fee and 24 cents for "mark-up costs," the documents show. The mark-up portion is intended to cover the overhead for administering the contract.

Ms. Hall of Halliburton said it was "misleading" for the corps to call it a mark-up. "This simply means overhead costs, which includes the general and administrative costs like light bulbs, paper and employees," she said. "These costs are specifically allowable under the contract with the Corps of Engineers, are defined by detailed regulations, and are scrutinized and approved by U.S. government auditors."

In recent weeks, the costs of importing fuel from Kuwait have risen. Figures provided recently to Congressional investigators by the corps show that Halliburton was charging as much as $3.06 per gallon for fuel from Kuwait in late November.

If the corps concludes that Halliburton has successfully administered the gas contract, it could be paid an additional 5 percent of the total value of the gas it imported.

Halliburton's Kuwait subcontractor was hired in May. Halliburton and the Army Corps of Engineers refused to identify the company, citing security reasons. Aides to Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who has been a critic of the fuel contract, said government officials had identified it as the Altanmia Commercial Marketing Company. Several independent petroleum experts in the Middle East and the United States said they had not heard of Altanmia.

Copies of the Army Corps documents were given to Mr. Waxman's office, which provided them to The Times.

Iraqi's state oil company, SOMO, pays 96 cents a gallon to bring in gas, which includes the cost of gasoline and transportation costs, the aides to Mr. Waxman said. The gasoline transported by SOMO — and by Halliburton's subcontractor — are delivered to the same depots in Iraq and often use the same military escorts.

The Pentagon's Defense Energy Support Center pays $1.08 to $1.19 per gallon for the gas it imports from Kuwait, Congressional aides said. That includes the price of the gas and its transportation costs.

The money for Halliburton's gas contract has come principally from the United Nations oil-for-food program, though some of the costs have been borne by American taxpayers. In the appropriations bill signed by Mr. Bush last month, taxpayers will subsidize all gas importation costs beginning early next year.

In an interview on Tuesday, Mr. Waxman responded to the latest information on to costs of the Halliburton contract. "It's inexcusable that Americans are being charged absurdly high prices to buy gasoline for Iraqis and outrageous that the White House is letting it happen," he said.

Offline Pongo

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2003, 10:40:26 AM »
There have been lots of things that Bush has been uclear or dishonest about in this whole ordeal. But who would be paid to rebuild was not one of them. If this is a supprise to anyone they are kind of sad.  As to thier protests...they will be filed away I am sure. When it comes out in the wash wether this whole war was a good or bad thing then they can wave thier protests or forget about them.
I am sure if they both contributed 5000 soldiers they would be alloud in.
Other then that, will US soldiers be protecting German contractors from attacks by Iraqis?

On second thought, Bush should let em in. Best way to get their buy in on the war is to get a few of them capped by the iraqis.

Offline Yeager

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2003, 10:40:50 AM »
Good call.  I like this administration more each day.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline kappa

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2003, 10:50:17 AM »
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Originally posted by Yeager
Good call.  I like this administration more each day.


Why??

k
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Offline Dago

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2003, 11:14:12 AM »
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Thats great.. then they can veto ours..


Beep beep, Earth to Kappa : They already have!
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Dago

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2003, 11:15:01 AM »
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it wasnt there war why should they be upset if they dont have to clean up after it


Its about money.  France and Germany want it.  That is why they tried blocking the US in the first place from going into Iraq, money.

Now that we are there, the blood price is paid and being paid, they just want to cash in on the money to be made.  


dago
« Last Edit: December 10, 2003, 11:18:02 AM by Dago »
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Dago

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Too Funny! France and Germany are upset
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2003, 11:19:52 AM »
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They are supposed to chip in "for iraq" because Haliburton isn't quite making enough as it stands ?
 


A little honest research about Haliburton and the contracts might open your eyes a little.  Or, of course, you could just accept and believe what the liberal press is feeding you and regurgitate it like a mindless pawn.
dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"