Author Topic: Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?  (Read 836 times)

Offline Sabre

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3112
      • Rich Owen
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2003, 01:39:49 PM »
Remember that the surplus was a projected surplus, and that much of it evaporated when the economy began it's cyclic downturn towards the end of the Clinton presidency.  It took a further hit when 9/11 occured and we found ourselves essentially at war with terrorism.  Having said all that, there is nonetheless just cause to critice both the President and Congress (both houses) in regards to the budget.

While I approve of much that this administration has done, I too am disappointed that President Bush and the Congress (both parties in Congress, as neither has worked to curb spending) have not shown more fiscal restraint.  The pork-laden Omnibus spending bill, combined with the prescription drug bill, are prime examples of government run amok.  I firmly believe the tax cuts were a good idea, and have helped stimulate the economy as intended.  The two aforementioned bills run exactly counter to the philosophy behind the tax cuts.  Why has this happened?  Why has the Republican party, the party known ostensibly for smaller government and fiscal restraint, gone so far left on spending?

First, the Clinton-era deficits were in large measure due to Republican control of Congress (remember, Congress controls the money, not the President).  Republican lawmakers fought against nationalized health care and other large-dollar programs championed by President Clinton.  With a Democrat in the White House, it was only natural for them to resist his and Democrats in Congress’ programs.  They were able to live up to their “Contract With America” promises to balance the budget while opposing a president their voter base disliked or even loathed.  A win-win situation for them and the country.

Now Republicans control both houses of Congress and the White House.  Now, unfortunately, they’re so desirous to keep control of it, they’ve forgotten what it was they were sent there by their constituents to do.  Now when President Bush uses the bully pulpit of the presidency to take away an issue from Democrats, it is harder for Republicans in Congress to resist, because he is their man now, not the opposition’s.  If they fight too hard to resist the President’s agenda, it will weaken him politically, which they dare not do so close to the next major election.  Understand, I hold Democrats equally liable in this.  Both those major spending bills I mentioned, as well as campaign finance reform (a clear violation of the 1st Amendment, btw), could only have passed with major support from both parties.

Having said all that, I will still vote to re-elect President Bush, first because I think he has acquitted himself well in the face of national tragedy and threats to our way of life, and second because I firmly believe any of the Democratic presidential candidates would be far worse in terms of social policy.  I also hope Republicans in Congress sit down with the President to remind him (after remembering themselves) why conservatives supported him in the first place.  I hope Republicans remember soon what they’re supposed to stand for, i.e. smaller government, less intrusive government, and less greedy government.
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline mietla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2276
Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2003, 02:07:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by banana
So, all that crying about the spending habits of democrats in the last election was nothing but a smokescreen.
 


Of course it was. Can't believe you are surprised.

Offline JBA

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1797
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2003, 02:12:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Didn't the last "Tax and spend Democrat" leave us with a ..... SURPLUS?

I wonder where that surplus went?


Projected surplus. It never realy existed.  next

War on terror and homeland security.  next

Sabre summed it up nicely.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2003, 02:17:01 PM by JBA »
"They effect the march of freedom with their flash drives.....and I use mine for porn. Viva La Revolution!". .ZetaNine  03/06/08
"I'm just a victim of my own liberalhoodedness"  Midnight Target

Offline Wanker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4030
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2003, 02:13:25 PM »
I wasn't surprised.

Offline mietla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2276
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2003, 02:15:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Didn't the last "Tax and spend Democrat" leave us with a ..... SURPLUS?

I wonder where that surplus went?


I just saw it right there, next to the California surplus. Both Clinton and Davis saw an unusually high revenue stream and not only they've pissed it away, but committed this spending forever.

The bubble have burst, the revenue went down to normal (or below), but the committed spending remains. Voila, there is your "surplus". It never existed.


Not that Bush is any better.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2003, 02:42:59 PM »
Well, banana, I don't like it either.

But, had you been sitting in Congress, would you have voted against the Homeland Security Bill?

Voted against the new Medicare/prescription legislation?

Given the events Rip mentioned, I think we had to expect deficit spending. Given the status of many of our seniors, I think we SHOULD improve their medical/prescriptions.

The tax give back? Shouldn't have been done at this time. There's just too much spending that we must/need to do.

Given a choice, I don't want to give ANY more money to Congress than we do now. They will spend all you give them, spend more after they run out of that and then cry that they need more still.

Government is a pig that can never be satiated.

However, there's times when you gotta feed it. This is one of them.

Is their wasteful spending? Absolutely! Is that any different than any other year? Not really; perhaps they're wasting more now, but "crisis management" tends to be wasteful.

Homeland Security is a perfect example of the "crisis management" spending attitude.

I'll point out that I said from 9/12 that the US won't pay for real security. Homeland Security was far from "real security" and they're already cutting that. ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Virage

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1097
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2003, 03:56:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target

I wonder where that surplus went?


Boeing.
JG11

Vater

Offline Sabre

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3112
      • Rich Owen
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2003, 04:01:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Virage
Boeing.


Well, good thing I took their job offer, and not Lockheed-Martin's.
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27251
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2003, 04:44:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by banana
Furthermore, your insinuation that the Democrats take from the people and give nothing back in return is both naiive and ludicrous.

 


Name one tax cut the Democrats gave us back...I'll be waiting here, shortly though, because you're not going to find one recently.

Offline FUNKED1

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6866
      • http://soldatensender.blogspot.com/
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2003, 04:55:46 PM »

Offline miko2d

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2003, 09:28:03 PM »
banana: The difference, Mietla, is that during the last election you Reps were falling all over yourself bashing the Dems for their Tax & Spend ways.

 The democrats are people with principles - wrong ones but principles nevertheless. Democrats are the honest socialists.

 Republican politicians are the lying socialist scoundrels - praising the free market and limited government but doing exactly the same as democrats would do.

 miko

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2003, 09:34:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
The difference is...giving taxes back stimulates the economy (proven), the Repubs GIVE money back to the people


No they didn't.  They spent all your money and more.  They then borrowed even more money and gave it the wealthyist citizens.

Offline mietla

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2276
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2003, 10:55:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
...  and gave it the wealthyist citizens.


who happend to be the owners to begin with.

Besides, the tzx cat is not "giving the money away", it is just taking less.

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2003, 12:30:17 AM »
They aren't taking less, they aren't giving the money back.  There is no money to give back, it's already spent.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Whatever Happened to the Tax & Spend Democrats?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2003, 08:46:57 AM »
No, they take less.

They just keep spending, however.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!