Author Topic: To fix dive bombing Buffs...  (Read 1305 times)

Offline Virage

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« on: December 16, 2003, 03:44:42 PM »
Disable 'secondary fire' from cockpit in all level bombers.  

ie. players must be in the 'bombardier's position' to drop bombs when flying the b17, lanc, ki67, etc.

bombers that could dive bomb (tbm, ju88 etc) would not be restricted of course.
JG11

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Offline simshell

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2003, 12:22:18 AM »
im all for it

im geting tired of lancasters carpet bombing tanks

:rofl
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Offline Overlag

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2003, 05:35:06 PM »
AGREED!
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline Kweassa

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2003, 09:08:17 PM »
Wow!!!!

 That's like the "Columbus' Egg" story!! :D

 Virage, you just provided the most simple, and yet most effective solution for curing the dive bombing level bombers!

 
ps) of course, the Ju-88 would be an exception. It WAS a dive bomber as well, complete with dive flaps. Maybe the bomb vay ordnance would be disabled inside cockpit??

Offline Karnak

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2003, 01:36:09 AM »
Did the pilot or bombardier drop the torpedo from a Ki-67?

Other than that I think it is a good idea for the B-17, B-26 and Lanc.
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Offline Virage

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2003, 07:38:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Did the pilot or bombardier drop the torpedo from a Ki-67?
 


Good point.  Ki67 pilots should be able to drop torps.
JG11

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Offline Overlag

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2003, 05:50:52 PM »
while i said agreed at first, there are some moments that make it impossible to do this right. Afterall Lancasters have been used to do NOE raids in real life as well... although AH it all seems to be NOE (except for the skilled few).

Planned NOE raids are still fun, and the ones i do arnt ment to be suicide NOE raids either. Force instance I and "Theking" (not sure if he plays anymore he is a knight) did a 150miles NOE raid mostly through NME airspace to a HQ on the small island map with a tank island in the middle. We Flew around islands, hid from any other cons, and the first warning they got was there HQ flashing, then there Radar screen going black....If we had climbed to 20k we would have had to taken off 125miles further back..

We both got home too :aok

Some would call that dweebish, but we both found it very fun for 2 hours and even landed some kills each, getting a 20+ perk sortie in a lanc is rare for me...

stopping the bomb drops in the cockpit would lose things like this but it might be the price to pay for the other dweebish actions :(
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline MOSQ

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2003, 06:39:29 PM »
I am 100% for this idea ! I'm sick of suicide Lancasters diving in on CVs.
Great Idea !

Offline Virage

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2003, 11:00:22 AM »
Overlag...

you could still do ur 150 mile NOE raid.  but u would have to use the f6 view to do ur drop.
JG11

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Offline Overlag

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2003, 01:17:08 PM »
which would be near impossible at 500AGL

but thats the price we will have to pay i guess.......
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline EsmeNhaMaire

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2003, 08:42:55 PM »
Um, no, it wouldnt be if AH gave players the option of having either a stabilised vector or tachometric sight on their bomber (where there was either fitted in RL). The current system is an odd mix of the two.

For better realism, we shoudl be able to dial in our intended attack altitude, say with a dot command, and also "windage" data to allow for wind. NOE wind wouldnt really mattter, of course.  Having dialled in the data, what happens with a tachometric sight is that you find the target with your sight, and move the cross hairs onto the target and keep them there. A link between the sight and the autopilot adjusts the planes course, within reason, if need be.  (in RL, especially early on, there was no link, jut the bombardier yelling "left a bit" to the pilot...)

The bombsight "knows" where the plane is in relation to the target from the angle the sight is pointing down, and can measure the speed from the rate of change of angle. At the right moment (so long as the crosshairs have been held on teh target), the bombs are automatically released by the sight.

I doubt that a tachometric sight could be used effectively at very low level,though.

A stabilised vetor sight, you'd dial in the altitude and speed (vector sights are simpler than tachometric ones. The vector sight doesnt measure anything) and windage.  Then, when near target, you use the bombsight to guide your plane so that the crosshairs pass over teh target. At that moment, you manually release the bombs. Rather like the AH bombsight used to be, except that instead of the sight magically knowing the speed, alt, windage, etc, you;d have to tell it those things.

That's my understanding, anyway - I believe there;s a small number of people in teh community who've actually used the real things or have been able to research them more thoroughly.

Anyway, a stabilised vector sight could easily be used low-level.

I'd also add that nothing is likely to ever stop unrealistic dweebery in the MA, which, no matter what, is simply a general melee with WW2 equipment. If you want realistic behaviour from participants, you need organised games... :-}

Esme

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Offline JB42

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2003, 02:09:55 PM »
How about bombs disabled for pilot unless the auto-pilot is engaged of make them disabled if ROC is negative?
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Offline Virage

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2003, 02:32:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
which would be near impossible at 500AGL


Bombardier View allows you to look forward without being 'in the scope'.  You could still 'eyeball' it( and it shouldn't be hard to do @ 500agl) , but you will have to fly level.
JG11

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Offline Tilt

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2003, 06:48:12 AM »
Totally agree

To go further you will note that many buffs can be configured as attack.

I would say if its a non formation, non bomb site buff then its an attack ac and no bomber/attacker option should be available.

If its loaded with torps its forced to attack ac status.

If it still has a Bomber/attack ac choice then...........

When attack is chosen the

formation is disabled

F6 Bomb site is disabled

Only pilot has bomb/torp release control

When bomber is chosen

formation is enabled (by choice)

F6 bomb site is enabled

only bomb aimer has bomb release control.

We then end up with the following

Bombers only
(must use F6 can have formations)

B17
Lanc
B26    ?
Ar 234


Bombers/Attackers (depending on A/B choice[torps=attack])

TBM
Ju88
Ki 67
B5N2 Kate
Boston


Attackers (No F6, no formations)

A20
C47
D3A1
Il2m3
Ju87 D3
SBD 5
« Last Edit: December 22, 2003, 06:51:38 AM by Tilt »
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Offline WhiteHawk

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To fix dive bombing Buffs...
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2003, 10:25:32 AM »
have the bombs not dop under negative g's.  it would still be possible to dive bomb, but very difficult to hit anything.