Author Topic: Justice  (Read 993 times)

Offline Sandman

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Offline Mini D

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Justice
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2003, 01:55:33 PM »
2:1... and it's not over yet.  That one will go higher.

I wonder if it would have even been an issue if they'd arrested him in pakistan.

MiniD

Offline Yeager

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Justice
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2003, 02:03:30 PM »
"Where, as here, the President's power as Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces and the domestic rule of law intersect, we conclude that clear congressional authorization is required for detentions of Americans on American soil...."
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I agree with this completely.  It is a wonderful expression of american ideals, however I consider the american justice system an abstract failure and believe that a military tribunal would provide a much higher level of justice regarding this case.  American or not.....
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Offline Martlet

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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2003, 02:05:43 PM »
I'd like to see him tried for treason and hung.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2003, 02:13:36 PM »
He needs to be charged or released, this was one of my biggest problems with the Bush admin. This guy as scummy as he is, is a US citizen, and his rights where being violated.

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2003, 02:18:40 PM »
GtoRA2: This guy as scummy as he is

 Supposedely scummy - not even "allegedely", becasue there were no allegations made to the court of law about his scumminess.

 If we were throwing people into military brig just on the president press-secretary' assertion of scumminess to the press, all democratic politicians would be there by now.

 It's not just his rights that are being violated but our rights as well to have a constitutonal government process.

 miko

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2003, 06:58:10 PM »
I have to agree on the release on this guy. Either charge him and try him or cut him loose. If there is enough evidence then go for it. If not, then follow the constitutional mandates for that IS the sign of a democracy.
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2003, 08:42:51 AM »
I need to add that "dirty bomb" is nothing but a horror-tale invented by illiterate journalists to scare uneducated public.

It's next to impossible to make a "bomb" that will be able to kill anybody with radiation.

Offline ra

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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2003, 08:55:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
I need to add that "dirty bomb" is nothing but a horror-tale invented by illiterate journalists to scare uneducated public.

It's next to impossible to make a "bomb" that will be able to kill anybody with radiation.

An attack with radioactive material could poison a big chunk of land for decades.  The 'bomb' element is just for dispersal.  In theory it is an attack on the economy rather than on life.  Though people who are close to the source would probably be at very high risk of cancer.

ra

Offline capt. apathy

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Justice
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2003, 08:58:14 AM »
Quote
If we were throwing people into military brig just on the president press-secretary' assertion of scumminess to the press, all democratic politicians would be there by now.


patients,  I'm sure Bush has people trying to work out an angle on that.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2003, 09:03:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
I need to add that "dirty bomb" is nothing but a horror-tale invented by illiterate journalists to scare uneducated public.

It's next to impossible to make a "bomb" that will be able to kill anybody with radiation.


Disagree with little or no knowledge of which you speak, but the fact remains, its easy, its cheap, and the material is very accessible, or you can continue to bury your head in the sand and not listen to Scientists around the world who agree it is very much a clear and present danger.
 ref:

Director of the Strategic Security Project, Federation of American Scientists, report

Scientists conference, searching for ways to head off the threat of simple weapons that spread radiation and chaos-report

I also have first hand information on how hospitals have made changes to the security of transporting nuclear material and its waste.

Offline Tuomio

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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2003, 09:27:17 AM »
Just for curiosity. How does one make an effective dirty bomb? Take X amount of solid radioactive waste and wrap it around 1000 kg:s of TNT? What is the dispersion scenario in such event, how far will the solid radioactive materials travel?

Where can you aquire lots of highly radioactive materials, how to store them and how to transport them without being noticed?

Also, i have understood, that radioactive waste is life threatening only when ingested or you being exposed to the rays for prolonged perioids.

And im not defending this guy, he should be hanged.

Offline Horn

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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2003, 09:32:44 AM »
All American people of Middle-Eastern origin should be rounded up and put into internment camps. For our safety.

h

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2003, 09:39:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tuomio
Just for curiosity. How does one make an effective dirty bomb? Take X amount of solid radioactive waste and wrap it around 1000 kg:s of TNT? What is the dispersion scenario in such event, how far will the solid radioactive materials travel?


The dispersion of such radioactive material depends on the direction and intensity of the wind. 1 grain of radioactive material say, from depleted material coming from a hospital X-ray area, inhaled, is lethal within approx. 3 days, depending on the age and health of the individual (This is off the top of my bald head on a documentary that aired on TV recently.)  It is not so much the area that it covers that poses the threat, its the clean up and future habitation of an area that has been exposed to a dirty bomb that concerns scientists.(See quote below with the link) With no wind, an area 1 mile in diameter would be considered "Contaminated" with convention explosives and radioactive material that amounts to roughly 5 lbs of "Cesium", a commonly used radioactive material used in hospitals and manufacturing industrys alike.
Quote
Where can you aquire lots of highly radioactive materials, how to store them and how to transport them without being noticed?


Alot of radioactive materials is not needed, and it does not have to be "highly radioactive" to be lethal to humans.  Depleted radioactive materials such as those found in 30mm load in the A-10 can be hazardous.  Speaking for the level 1 trauma unit my wife works in, these depleted sources after their useful life are identifed with the proper labels within a lead case. They since changed the procedure for the transportation of such material, and the security clearances of those who do so.
Also, i have understood, that radioactive waste is life threatening only when ingested or you being exposed to the rays for prolonged perioids.

Quote
Radiological attacks constitute a credible threat. Radioactive materials that could be used for such attacks are stored in thousands of facilities around the US, many of which may not be adequately protected against theft by determined terrorists. Some of this material could be easily dispersed in urban areas by using conventional explosives or by other methods.
While radiological attacks would result in some deaths, they would not result in the hundreds of thousands of fatalities that could be caused by a crude nuclear weapon. Attacks could contaminate large urban areas with radiation levels that exceed EPA health and toxic material guidelines.
Materials that could easily be lost or stolen from US research institutions and commercial sites could contaminate tens of city blocks at a level that would require prompt evacuation and create terror in large communities even if radiation casualties were low. Areas as large as tens of square miles could be contaminated at levels that exceed recommended civilian exposure limits. Since there are often no effective ways to decontaminate buildings that have been exposed at these levels, demolition may be the only practical solution. If such an event were to take place in a city like New York, it would result in losses of potentially trillions of dollars.

http://www.fas.org/faspir/2002/v55n2/dirtybomb.htm
« Last Edit: December 19, 2003, 09:44:55 AM by Ripsnort »

Offline Tuomio

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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2003, 10:07:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
[B It is not so much the area that it covers that poses the threat, its the clean up and future habitation of an area that has been exposed to a dirty bomb that concerns scientists. With no wind, an area 1 mile in diameter would be considered "Contaminated" with convention explosives and radioactive material that amounts to roughly 5 lbs of depleted Uranium powder.


But there is this problem with intensity. When you have only small amounts of stuff thrown over an big area, the effects will be next to zero.  Its another thing what the officials consider as being "contaminated" and how long it would be labelled as such.

Depleted uranium is not dangerous because its radioactive, but because its heavy metal. Just like lead. And i have read studies that claim lead dust being more hazardous than equal amounts of DU dust when inhaled.
Does materials from x-ray projectors act the same way? Im not claiming that dirty bombs would not be dangerous, its just that the amount of work that has to be done for building one does not yield the same impact than for example bioweapon would. Its overhyped.