Author Topic: Most Surprising Fighter Fact? (Read 12877 times)

Crumpp · « **Reply #105 on:** February 01, 2004, 11:08:41 PM »

Sorry no it's not. There are basically two approaches to building a bomb. We took one route which took a longer time to develop but produced a higher yield weapon. The approach the Germans took would have produced a lower yield much "dirtier" weapon but nonetheless would have worked. They had a working reactor before the war even started. Their approach needed a large amount of heavy water. Their only plants were in Norway and the OSS launched 9 seperate missions to sabotage their efforts.

Here is the story of the most successful attempt to destroy the heavy Water Plants.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340830158/ref=ase_janeriks/202-6549898-8519046

A letter Albert Einstien wrote to FDR warning of the German Atomic weapons research.

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/Einstein.shtml

One year before the war started the Germans had produced a fission reaction.

http://www.cccoe.k12.ca.us/abomb/timeline.htm

In the begining of the war they were farther along than the Allies.

http://www.cccoe.k12.ca.us/abomb/race.htm

FACT:

December 19, 1938

Otto Hahn, Fritz Strassman and Lise Meitner produce Uranium nuclear fission at Germany's Kaiser Wilhelm Institute.

Bohr, who was insturmental in the US bomb program was good friends with Heisenberg who ended up heading up the Nazi program. There is quite a bit of speculation that Heisenberg delibrately sabotaged the German program. This is well documented in the "Farm reports" debriefing the scientist's in the program. One thing is for sure, they started the war ahead but by the end took a wrong term and would never have produced a bomb with the path they were on.

The program was far from fiction. It was a huge threat in 1940 that thru the efforts of some very brave men became a mere shadow of it's begining potential.

Crumpp

GScholz · « **Reply #106 on:** February 02, 2004, 01:07:06 AM »

You keep stating that the OSS did all this. Frankly I fail to see where the OSS was involved, it was the British SOE that led the Telemark actions and all the operatives on the ground were Norwegians.

Crumpp · « **Reply #107 on:** February 02, 2004, 04:55:53 AM »

Yes the OSS was involved and launched 9 seperate missions. The OSS and the SOE worked extremely close during WWII. Many of the missions they conducted are "claimed" by both agencies. Jedburgh Program, Norway, Italy, Balkans, N. Africa etc..

I believe the OSS was the main effort in Norway for organizing the resistance.

Some of their Operations are not combined ops. "Cockleshell Commandos", Brigade 77, etc..

Much has still not been declassified but here are some links to show you that yes the OSS was in Norway.

http://hem.fyristorg.com/arcticwar/report_jamtland.html

http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/art5.html

Crumpp

Angus · « **Reply #108 on:** February 02, 2004, 05:31:25 AM »

Those tough Norwegians from Hardanger

Were there no Brits on that mission?
A former worker of mine knew some old Norwegians that were involved in that mission. That would have been in 1995.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #109 on:** February 02, 2004, 06:24:55 AM »

GScholz, did you forget that it was the Americans that captured the Enigma machine from the German sub?

Crumpp, kindly stop the flag waving. The Americans did not win WW2 all by themselves though all their help was greatly appreciated.

GScholz · « **Reply #110 on:** February 02, 2004, 06:28:51 AM »

In 1945 yes there were one OSS led Norwegian operation (NORSO), but it had nothing to do with the heavy water raids or with hindering the German A-bomb development. There was a few other SOE operations along the Norwegian coast earlier in the war where a couple of US operatives were involved, but those operations were to observe German shipping in Norwegian waters nothing more.

Quote

The eight planes continued north, across the North Sea, over the stark fjords and the white mountains, then up the Norway-Sweden coast past Trondheim, Namsos--almost to the Arctic Circle. By now, night had fallen and the moon was coming up. Below, a faint mist was spreading, taking the sharpness off the rocks, but meaning trouble later.

Then it was midnight, and the pilot called to say that we were 25 miles off course over neutral Sweden.

Whoever wrote this needs a quick lesson in geography.

Angus · « **Reply #111 on:** February 02, 2004, 06:33:16 AM »

Hmm, did the Yanks get any Enigma at all.
I remember 3 right away. One got captured in the summer 1940 when a German sub was forced to surrender for a RAF aircraft flying from Iceland, one was the one HMS Bulldog got, and one was retrived from a sunken sub in the British channel (diver job)

MiloMorai · « **Reply #112 on:** February 02, 2004, 06:50:26 AM »

Yes Angus, from U-471, was it not.

At least, that is what was shown in the movie.

Furball · « **Reply #113 on:** February 02, 2004, 06:59:36 AM »

Dont forget those B-17s that flew really low and dropped bouncing bombs on those dams, they were awesome.

Crumpp · « **Reply #114 on:** February 02, 2004, 09:02:19 AM »

Flag Waving!!

More like noodle envy on your part. Sorry to offend your OHHH SOO Sensitive feelings.

But, your wrong. The OSS was conducting Unconventional Warfare Operations (UWO) in Norway from '41 til the end of the war. In fact the OSS was the main effort with UWO in Norway due to the large Norwegian-American population. We simply had more contacts in the country than the SOE. Hence many Operations after the US entry into the war were joint. Additionally the SOE had the loin's share of actual operational knowledge. They had been fighting Hitler for longer than the US. The OSS sent operatives on as many SOE missions in the begining as they could to gain experience. With regard to the Heavy Water plants the OSS/SOE worked together. We had the Norwegian contacts/UWO assets, the SOE had the experience in Direct Action. 9 seperate missions were launched before one was successful.

As for the Enigma..I guess that big display at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry is BS. Naw, the US didn't help in that either. Another Joint effort....Maybe???

Crumpp

SunTracker · « **Reply #115 on:** February 02, 2004, 09:13:08 AM »

The B-17 dropped more tons of bombs than any other plane in World War II.

Only 1 bomb (dropped by British) in 50 fell within 5 miles miles of the target.

Dowding · « **Reply #116 on:** February 02, 2004, 09:25:29 AM »

Quote

The B-17 dropped more tons of bombs than any other plane in World War II.

This I really do doubt that. The Lancaster had a higher bomb load and the B-24 was far more numerous than the B-17. Sounds like Hollywood fiction to me.

Quote

Only 1 bomb (dropped by British) in 50 fell within 5 miles miles of the target.

Depends on the target and aircraft. The mossie certainly had a higher accuracy than that.

GScholz · « **Reply #117 on:** February 02, 2004, 09:45:02 AM »

Which operation would that be? If you're saying that the SOE and OSS trained and equipped Norwegian operatives, then yes that is true, but name one American who set foot on Norwegian soil before 1945, or one OSS led operation in Norway. Like I said, I believe there were a couple of Americans who joined an SOE surveillance operation on the Norwegian coast ... nothing more. The Telemark operation against the Norsk Hydro heavy water plant was an SOE/Milorg operation which involved only Norwegian operatives in British uniforms. Every sabotage operation in Norway during WWII was done by Milorg or Kompani Linge/SOE.

SunTracker · « **Reply #118 on:** February 02, 2004, 10:12:16 AM »

Quote

This I really do doubt that. The Lancaster had a higher bomb load and the B-24 was far more numerous than the B-17. Sounds like Hollywood fiction to me.

No, its true. I have seen the charts.

The B-24 was not used extensively in the heavy bomber role. Alot of sorties were spent just patrolling in the PTO.

Lancaster had nowhere near the numbers or sorties that the B-17 did.

B-17 was the work-horse of the ETO, from 42 to 45.

SunTracker · « **Reply #119 on:** February 02, 2004, 10:15:43 AM »

During the war, B-17s dropped 640,036 tons of bombs on European targets in daylight raids. This compares with 452,508 tons dropped by Liberators and 464,544 tons dropped by all other U.S. aircraft. The B-17s downed 23 enemy planes per 1,000 raid as compared with 11 by Liberators, 11 by fighters, and three by all U.S. medium and light bombers.
source:http://www.91stbombgroup.com/91history.html

During the war Lancasters carried out a total of 156,000 missions and dropped 608,612 tons of bombs.
Source: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWavro.htm