Author Topic: Most Surprising Fighter Fact? (Read 12639 times)

HoHun · « **Reply #60 on:** January 03, 2004, 09:12:54 PM »

Hi Halo,

>And (whew), of those top eight on the chart, the only jet is the Gloster Meteor, in 3rd place, but its plate range is given as 1,390 miles, making it best of all.

Is that chart for internal fuel only? With 2 x 110 gallon drop tanks, the P-51D/K had an optimum range of 2360 statue miles, for example.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Halo · « **Reply #61 on:** January 03, 2004, 10:45:06 PM »

My guess is the chart has only internal fuel. Certainly should have stated that somewhere, but if it did, I can't find it.

And even with this small sample, there are some inconsistencies between chart ranks and ranges shown in some tables.

Oh well, can you imagine proofreading any reference book that size? Whew, challenging enough just to read the data.

GScholz · « **Reply #62 on:** January 03, 2004, 11:33:41 PM »

Not exactly a "fighter" fact, but interesting anyways. In October 1943 a Junkers 390 flew to within 12 miles of New York, a 32 hour round trip from Germany. The world's first intercontinental bomber, also the most heavily armed bomber with eight 20mm cannons and eight 13mm machineguns. Luckily for the US it never got operational since Germany switched to fighter production. It had a loaded weight of 166,448 lbs, a range of 6,027 miles, and could carry a payload of 22,046 lbs.

Halo · « **Reply #63 on:** January 04, 2004, 11:00:44 AM »

Good factoid, GScholz. I should have titled this thread Surprising WWII Aircraft Facts but it didn't sound as good as Surprising Fighter Facts.

Anyway, here's another: as far as I can discover, only three six-engine aircraft were operational in WWII. All were German: the Junkers 390 bomber, Me-323 transport, and Bv.222 seaplane. The transport was reportedly the most useful, especially in supplying the beleagured Russian front.

Incidentally, what happened on that Junkers 390 coming so close to the U.S. mainland? Was it discovered and shot down, or did it return to Germany?

GScholz · « **Reply #64 on:** January 04, 2004, 01:50:04 PM »

It was just an endurance test flight. It returned to Germany without incident. The Ju390 also had two crews to allow it to operate for one and a half day at sea in the recce role. The Ju390 never reached production, so I don't think it would be correct to call it operational. Only three prototypes were made.

Halo · « **Reply #65 on:** January 04, 2004, 06:58:41 PM »

Oops, right you are GScholz, you stated clearly that the Ju 390 never reached production. I should have been more careful, but
your info and pic were so convincing I didn't even check for more Ju 390 info in The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Military Aircraft, which after I finally did does not mention the Ju 390 at all.

Still, a fascinating factoid. Can't imagine a behemoth like that flying all the way to the U.S. and back in the middle of the war. Even in 1943, you'd think something Allied would have spotted it and shot it down.

Hollywood should have worked that into the Indiana Jones series.

By comparison, the six-engine B-36 prototype did not fly until a year after WWII ended, Aug. 8, 1946.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #66 on:** January 04, 2004, 07:03:39 PM »

There is some debate on wether that 390 flight to NYC actually took place.

GScholz · « **Reply #67 on:** January 04, 2004, 07:22:16 PM »

Really?

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #68 on:** January 04, 2004, 08:43:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
Nice Widewing, Nice;)
Did you know that damage to the hydraulics system in the 190 could lead to it dropping one or both legs of gear down? And that with one gear down it could turn very tight to that side!
Or, that a lightly loaded Lancaster could loop!

The 190's landing gear, flaps, stabilizer trim, were all electrically operated.

XtrmeJ · « **Reply #69 on:** January 05, 2004, 01:01:06 AM »

my fac facts are some of the secret weapons of WWII. American pilots flying night based mission expirienced strange lights flying fast with them and could easily fly out of sight fast and and back into their sight just as fast. Secret documents were uncovered of these "UFO''s" and today the US has no idea what these plans mean. Except for one strange not that this "craft" out performed all fighters and was faster then their rocket based plane (im guessing the 163) strange that these occurences were just "lights". (This was a german secret weapon btw)

Rasker · « **Reply #70 on:** January 05, 2004, 04:10:33 AM »

Regarding the Ju 390 test flight to NY and back, (which I've heard started from Brest in occupied France, in April, 1944) I assume they timed it to reach New York after dark. And America's homeland radar and nightfighter capabilities at that point would still have been pretty rudimentary.

As to the range of the 390, either that plane or the similar Messerschmidt 264(?) were said to have been briefly used to run a shuttle cargo service between German bases in the Ukraine and Japanese-held Manchuria, until that part of the Ukraine was lost after Kursk.

Halo · « **Reply #71 on:** January 07, 2004, 12:01:42 AM »

Two more Surprising Fighter Facts:

Of all the single-engine fighters in WWII, only four had eight machine guns, and only one, the P-47, had eight .50-caliber machineguns. (The other three, with .303s, were the British Hurricane Mk. I, the Spitfire Mk. I, and the Fairey Fulmar Mk. I.)

Of all fighters, including twin-engine, possibly the heaviest air to air armament was the six 20-mm cannon of the Heinkel 219 A-2/R.1 night fighter (and some versions included 30mm cannon).

Widewing · « **Reply #72 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:14:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rasker
Regarding the Ju 390 test flight to NY and back, (which I've heard started from Brest in occupied France, in April, 1944) I assume they timed it to reach New York after dark. And America's homeland radar and nightfighter capabilities at that point would still have been pretty rudimentary.

As to the range of the 390, either that plane or the similar Messerschmidt 264(?) were said to have been briefly used to run a shuttle cargo service between German bases in the Ukraine and Japanese-held Manchuria, until that part of the Ukraine was lost after Kursk.

The Ju 390 story has been around for a long time. However, no one has ever offered a shred of proof that it got with 200 miles of NY, much less 12 miles... Odd how that coincides with the normal territorial limit too. Several articles have been written on this story and every one of them conclued that it was extremely unlikely to have occurred as told. Back in early 1943, the USAAF repeatedly tested the early warning systems along the east coast by flying bombers out to sea and returning unannounced to see if they were detected. They did this at high altitude and low altitude. Every attempt was discovered by radar or the standing patrols. Testing the early warning system continued right up the war's end.

There are some issues that are not easily accounted for. Such as what direction did the 390 approach from? It was wasn't from the east as it would have to overfly Long Island. Plus there was the problem with the Montauk Point radar station which was up and running in 1942, and could detect aircraft at greater than 100 miles. Plus, there was the constant fighter patrols off of Long Island and the ASW patrols as well. It didn't come in from the north or west, and the radar at Floyd Bennitt Field would have detected it if it came in from the south, up the New Jersey Coast.

Urban Myth it seems, or propaganda for the Fatherland's consumption.

My regards,

Widewing

hogenbor · « **Reply #73 on:** January 07, 2004, 01:25:38 AM »

The Spit VA had also 8 machine guns...

Furthermore, versions of the Hurricane had as much as 12, and this loadout was also carried on prototypes of the Hawker Toronado I believe.

Grendel · « **Reply #74 on:** January 07, 2004, 02:28:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Halo
Two more Surprising Fighter Facts:

Of all the single-engine fighters in WWII, only four had eight machine guns, and only one, the P-47, had eight .50-caliber machineguns.

Of all fighters, including twin-engine, possibly the heaviest air to air armament was the six 20-mm cannon of the Heinkel 219 A-2/R.1 night fighter (and some versions included 30mm cannon).

Hurricanes were also equipped with 12 .303 machine cannons. So booo to those puny 8 gun planes

Also, I dare say Heinkel 219's 6 x 20 mm cannon equipment still packs smaller punch than the 6 x 30 mm version of the Messerschmitt 262. And that was flown and used, too.