Author Topic: Hillary (Read 2342 times)

Thrawn · « **Reply #60 on:** January 03, 2004, 09:02:06 PM »

You can keep on coming up with thousand of conspiracies regarding why MI-6 and CIA did or didn't do something. I'm not sure what it proves though.

One fact does remain, it certainly appears that any intel stating that there were WMD in Iraq, was pretty freaking wrong.

Gyro/T69 · « **Reply #61 on:** January 03, 2004, 09:40:35 PM »

"You can keep on coming up with thousand of conspiracies regarding why MI-6 and CIA did or didn't do something. I'm not sure what it proves though. "

I believe they where the primary source of information for what was going on in Iraq. I don’t believe either Bush or Clinton when to Iraq on a fact-finding mission to gather the information first hand. They had to base their decision on the information from the Intel community.

On one hand, according to you, Clinton’s Intel was dead on and Bush’s was a conspiracy. Clinton presented no proof to back up his claims. Bush did. No WMDs have been found to date so Bush has to be lying. There’s no way in hell he’s Intel was faulty, he just lied.

Which one of us is really into conspiracies?

midnight Target · « **Reply #62 on:** January 03, 2004, 09:49:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kieran
See, there ya go. I have seen you state this several times, and I have seen people give you very clear and explicit reasons for disliking Hillary. You will then ignore them and say, "See? People just don't like a strong willed woman in leadership!" You've made up your mind about bias, and you aren't listening, therefore I personally don't feel a strong need to enumerate any reasons for disliking Hillary. You'll ignore them anyway.

There are plenty of examples of women in leadership that would not draw the ire Hillary has. In recent history, Eleanor Roosevelt would be a prime example of an activist First Lady, and she was largely revered. She was every bit as forceful as Hillary, but she had one quality (at least) Hillary totally lacks; a genuine desire to help others before herself.

Gyro- exactly. The same intelligence agencies were used in both cases, and it is clear Clinton believed strongly enough there were WMD capabilities in Iraq. Why else would he have attacked them with cruise missiles? If Bush followed the same intelligence agencies and entered Iraq, why is it this is war for oil? Either they were both right, or they were both wrong.

No explicit reasons given here or in the last thread I started with the same theme. If there are any I would love to see them.. care to point them out?

AKIron · « **Reply #63 on:** January 03, 2004, 11:09:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn
I imagine it's because some are hypocrits. For me I don't much see the point. It's not like there's any chance of Clinton being relected.

Oh I dunno, maybe if you guys offered him the job as King of Canada he'd take it. Hey, we both win.

maslo · « **Reply #64 on:** January 04, 2004, 07:16:24 AM »

reading this thead, it appear, that all US prezidents were/are criminals

Kieran · « **Reply #65 on:** January 04, 2004, 07:36:59 AM »

No, MT. Refer to my statement above. Search for your own answers, I think you have about as many of them as you're going to accept already.

Thrawn- don't bother, I've seen the leaks. It's finger-pointing at its finest. Bush exaggerated the threat to say the least, but saying it was a complete fabrication is way too far.

midnight Target · « **Reply #66 on:** January 04, 2004, 10:12:15 AM »

Quote

I have seen people give you very clear and explicit reasons for disliking Hillary.

I have seen none. What were you refering to?

Quote

There are plenty of examples of women in leadership that would not draw the ire Hillary has. In recent history, Eleanor Roosevelt would be a prime example of an activist First Lady, and she was largely revered. She was every bit as forceful as Hillary, but she had one quality (at least) Hillary totally lacks; a genuine desire to help others before herself

One major difference would be the climate of the Country regarding the possible political future for women. Hence Eleanor's works will always look altruistic because they could not be construed as anything else, while Hillary's works even if they be similar would always be open to 2 interpretations. Either she is doing good, or she is trying to look good for political reasons. Hardly a reason to hate her in either case.

Kieran · « **Reply #67 on:** January 04, 2004, 11:39:36 AM »

...and that quickly you dismissed my point regarding Hillary. Thank you for making my point on your mindset, though.

midnight Target · « **Reply #68 on:** January 04, 2004, 01:04:34 PM »

Hardly dismissed a point when none existed. I mearly suggested a possible reason for the different perception people had towards Eleanor Roosevelt.

OTOH You make the point that ER was "largely revered". Something that can also be said about Hillary Clinton (outside this BBS of course). See for example the latest Gallup Poll on the "Most Admired Woman in America".

You have also conveniently forgotten the enemies that Eleanor Roosevelt made through her activism. For example, Hoover hated her and her FBI file is one of the thickest on record. The extreme right wing thought she was surely a commie symp. Danggit... this all sounds soooooo familiar.

Kieran · « **Reply #69 on:** January 04, 2004, 01:38:37 PM »

Ah, but you miss the larger canvas. Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher, how will you discount them? I merely gave you one example you immediately dismissed.

You also miss another salient point; I don't much care for any opportunistic politician, which was chief amongst my complaints of Ol' Bill. It isn't a gender issue at all where I am concerned, though you will remain firmly convinced it is.

It's a very convenient seat you've made for yourself, where you are the sole arbiter of what is pertinent and what isn't. Have fun discussing it with yourself.

Shuckins · « **Reply #70 on:** January 04, 2004, 01:56:28 PM »

MT,

It might be easier for you to understand the animosity toward Hillary by pondering the following statement: It isn't a matter of Hillary being "perceived" as a left-wing radical by conservative Americans...rather, conservative Americans are "dead certain" that she is a left-wing radical.

If that is a misconception, it is one she has done little to dispel over the years. I am convinced that she was behind some of the more radical moves taken during the first two years of the Clinton administration which led to the conservative backlash during the Congressional elections of 1994. That led to Republicans gaining control of both houses of Congress for the first time in more than 40 years. After that hand-slap, Bill's administration adopted a more moderate tone for the remainder of his stay in office, or at least until the last couple of months, when he no longer had to fear the lash of conservative anger.

Regards, Shuckins

NUKE · « **Reply #71 on:** January 04, 2004, 02:11:03 PM »

She lied about her role in the firing of the White House travel staff. She basically had them all fired and put under investigation simply because She wanted one of her friends to earn the business of the travel staff.

I was disgusted with her expressions and "scoffing" attitude during Bush's State of the Union speech after 911

I don't find one thing I could say I admire or like about her. I don't know her and I could be dead wrong, but I percieve her to be dishonest and untrustworthy.

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #72 on:** January 04, 2004, 02:37:29 PM »

"I was disgusted with her expressions and "scoffing" attitude during Bush's State of the Union speech after 911"

well most well placed washington people knew he was a lieing bastard at the time. your wanting to feel good about the "commander in chief" notwithstanding.

in retrospect she was more than justified in that one for shure he was lieing and knew it at the time.

Eagler · « **Reply #73 on:** January 04, 2004, 05:58:16 PM »

not to mention Vince Foster .... yep, she's a real caring soul as long as it is her soul she is caring for..

Tumor · « **Reply #74 on:** January 05, 2004, 12:20:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Please, just one example of something Hillary actually DID that could foster such hatred.

She was born.