Author Topic: Three things that could really improve the AH experience  (Read 6131 times)

Offline Shane

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2004, 01:58:36 AM »
imho, it's the guys who *can't* handle the dogfighting aspect very well who want all this realism in other areas to make up for that lack.

:rolleyes:
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Offline SOB

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2004, 02:08:58 AM »
I can't say I'd like any of the ideas put forth by Wanky, but I do enjoy taking off myself.
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Offline NoBaddy

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2004, 02:30:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
... and Less realistic does not always = More fun either.



In the immortal words of Homer Simpson....."DOH!" :D. Thas why I put the word "always" in the statement.
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Offline Kweassa

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2004, 03:34:20 AM »
Maybe real life pilots just don't understand that the 'steps and procedures' which they make a part of their career life, and feel nothing special about it, is in fact a source of lot of immersion for those who don't get a chance to sit in real planes. :)

 I can understand some of you here with a lot of piloting experiences feeling indifferent, and even tedious towards to such things - hey, you do it all the time. It's nothing but a part of safety measures you have to always take, in the act of flying a plane which you always do. You'd rather lean towards the part of flying fun which you cannot do in your real lives - namely, exotic and sensational air combat. I understand that.

 But please bear in mind that to the rest of us who are all simularly engaged and fascinated by WW2 vintage aircraft, can only just imagine what it would be like :) How would it feel to be seated in your own craft.. knocking switches, pulling levers.. locking tail wheels, starting the plane in careful procedures.. engaging fuel switches, magnetos.. starting the engines and here we go~ woohoo! ;) I have a feeling a lot of real pilots would have felt that sort of feeling in your first solo flight. Recollect on that experience when you didn't know how to fly so well, and you'd understand.

 Immersion starts with imagination. Sometimes that imagination does run wild, like the many famous debates on 'over-realism' issues where people start to think 'hard=real'.. but sometimes, taking heed to what people like to imagine does increase the experience forthe majority - while unfortunately, the people who have experience in real aircraft would think of it as more tedious than interesting.

 I don't think the difference in what people want cannot be amended. There's always a middle path that can be chosen, and always room for improvements. It's just that we all have to understand that staying where we are may not be the best for fun, nor moving to somewhere else would always necessary mean advancement of fun.

 * * *

 In that sense, I think some parts of 'realistic' categories can be adopted and integrated very naturally to AH. The increased difficulty in take-off sequences as shown in AH2 beta seems to be one example that shows amendments aren't impossible.

 When it comes to formal landings on runways, or ditching on rough ground, it became even harder than Forgotten Battles.. I don't think I've ever survived a ditch with damaged/no gears in AH2B.. maybe it's a beta-issue and would be looked into in the real game, but as it is, landing things in AH2B would be just enough to satisfy both parties without major gripes.

 * * *

 The radar and icon issues, even if I consider myself one of those 'realism junkies', I support what current AH has to offer - especially since AH2Beta also brought some positive changes to the icon system.

 Also, I've experienced first-hand what 'over-realism' in fiddling around with icons can do in Forgotten Battles multiplayer rooms. No-icon games, or 'tampered' icon games with almost sadistic settings, makes the game literally 'realistic' - 5~6 sorties with no enemy contact. And then boom! in the 7th sortie, you're dead.

 Realistic? Yup.

 Fun? Well, it's fun in it's own way, but nothing that you may expect to become the norm in a MA style game.

 We have to realize the fact that in dealing with icons and radar settings, if you want realism to work out, then you have to expect the people to work together in realistically organized manner - they report everything to the HQ, the HQ confirms each organized flight's positions and relays the info to you, and each enemy contact must be immediately transmit so that people can be directed to fight. (<- hey, isn't this what our radar does?)

 In a free-style multiplayer game with people looking for some action(which, could be viewed as a sort of a H2H game with a really large map), the setting of no-icons and no-dar, just absolutely killed the gameplay in FB.

 Short icon distances of 3.0 in Combat Theater works well, and is a reasonable compromise. Will it ever make it in the MA? I don't think so, though.

 * * *

 Engine management is also a part of the game that can be looked into - people requesting for it aren't necessarily saying that they want to flick every switch in the cockpit. Just a few basic things would be enough.

 In my opinion, FB has done that - people refer to the system as 'complex engine management', but I dare say it's neither complex nor realistic.

 All it has done, is categorize the engine system into two different types requiring a little bit of different handling. One system works in a typical CSU style that is identical to AH, and the other is just a RPM/throttle  interlinked system. Besides that, all you have to do is just put the right supercharger according to altitudes. Is that something that utterly complicates the game for people that it can be called 'over-realism'? I don't think so. It's just a dumbed-down version of reality that just needs one or two more key inputs. I for one, think the price of one or two extra key inputs for more immersion, is a fair tradeoff.

 * * *

 I'm sure something can also be worked out with overheat issues, too... although I hardly think it would mean anything anyway, as long as the concept of engine life expectancy isn't present in the game.

 Maybe just tinker with the system a bit? Get rid of the automatic WEP ON/OFF feature, and implant some gameplay devices to make it work better. Is it realistic? I don't think so. But the funny thing is, a small tinkering in unrealistic departments can sometimes bring the same level of satisfaction as seeing a complex, real system.

 You can blow the engine if you want to, but once the needle passes the 'red zone', it will heat up at an accelerated rate, almost equal to when you have radiator damage. If the needle passes into the 'red zone', it will take what, 1.5 times more time to cool up than normal?

 Ofcourse, running at 100% power without WEP, will keep the needle under the yellow zone at all times.

 There, that's it. A system that gets rid of the 'auto', and yet, prevents people from abusing the ability to go to the red zone on their will. They may use WEP for an elongated duration(all the way from start of 'yellow zone' to nearly the end of the 'red zone') once, but once they do something like that, they'll probably never be able to reuse WEP effectively for the rest of the engagement.

 ..



 There could be room for improvements that are satisfactory to both sides. Let's just keep ourselves open minded. I mean, if HTC ever chooses to suddenly implement more realistic stuff, where will all you guys go? To WB? :D

Offline beet1e

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2004, 03:42:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
15kts ain't no biggie. Landed the PT-19 in a 22 Gust 28 70 degree cross... went on like a new coat of paint.
Is the PT19 a TD? And for crosswind landings, do you let the aircraft "weathercock" into the wind on the approach and then use rudder to line up for touch down, or do you use that wanky American one wing down technique? I never really understood that. :D

Offline Citabria

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2004, 04:02:19 AM »
does ww2ol still have the equivelant of PONG for a damage model?

does the sky there still look like vomit?
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Offline SirLoin

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2004, 04:09:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
This isn't about AH vs WWIIOL.  banana raises some good points and I'm sure some of these would be good for the CT/scenarios but perhaps not the MA.  Maybe with the mission setup in TOD (AH2) would better suit some of these changes?


Agree 100%
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Offline Toad

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2004, 07:34:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Is the PT19 a TD? And for crosswind landings,  




I can and do use both. Depends on my mood, sometimes depends on the wind.

In the really high crosswinds, at or near airplane limitation, I use the wanky American method on TD's. If you've heard the phrase "rapid rising of the upwind wing" in connection with the phrase "touched down in a crab" you would know why.

Someday you can buy me a MacAllan and I'll tell you about the time I used the wanky UK method on an L-1011.  :)

Oh, yeah, T-P. I'm off to collect some fresh tailfeathers.
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Offline Toad

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2004, 07:51:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Maybe real life pilots just don't understand that the 'steps and procedures' which they make a part of their career life, and feel nothing special about it, is in fact a source of lot of immersion for those who don't get a chance to sit in real planes. :)

 


Oh, I understand it. And, like my sig has said literally for years, if YOU wanna do a 37 step checklist to takeoff, that's FINE with me. Just give me the Autotakeoff feature so I can go get a beer.

I mean, your side of this argument is fine with all that, right? No one would disparage me for feeling that's a fair compromise, would they?

Quote
Dracon: Auto-Takeoff is for...Toads UGH! Go play Quake.


Oh.......
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline AWCHKRS

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2004, 08:01:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by banana
Nopoop, I'm not a realism Nazi, I'm more of a realism neo-fascist. :D



How, then, do you explain the thousands of people playing WW2OL? And if your hypothesis were correct, we'd all still be flying AW or Flying Circus or FA, wouldn't we?


 Hi- banana ,

  IMHO, Nopoop is correct ! ,  his hypothesis is correct too, and if AirWarrior RR PAC was still online I would be flying in it !!!
 I had more fun, just plain fun in that game than any other ....

  Regards
CHKRS

Offline jodgi

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2004, 08:21:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
or do you use that wanky American one wing down technique? I never really understood that. :D


Hey! some of us consider that technique the only way to go. Ask the ground crew why. Over here people are bullied into mastering it, being told that crab-rudder 'till touchdown are for the skill-less greenhorns ;)

Offline Westy

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2004, 08:36:11 AM »
"imho, it's the guys who *can't* handle the dogfighting aspect very well who want all this realism in other areas to make up for that lack. "


 I can't and wouldn't tell you that you're not entitled to that opinion but I can add mine to say that I think you're wrong.

Offline dracon

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2004, 08:37:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by dracon
That's what paying your fee is all about.  You got about 4 or more different games going on in here all at the same time.  I never try to tell anyone how to spend their dollars or play their games.


I may "poke" a bit of fun though.  I have never flown nuthin' 'cept models, paper and virtual.  This is as good as it gets for me.  Kweassa made the point.

WOW! Toad SIMMs since '90 and flown everything including a Broomstick!  By Gawd you're my new hero, Sir

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Offline beet1e

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2004, 09:24:41 AM »
Toad :lol

I'll look forward to hearing about that L1011 landing. :D That American method is almost unheard of over here - at least amongst flying club circles. The TB10 I used to fly had a 25 knot x-wind limit and I never had a problem with x-winds. The Cherokee Warrior PA28-151 I used to have had a x-wind limit of 20 knots, and I did once land that on R22 at Lydd in Kent when the wind was 310/20. It was fine, and I managed to hold the centre line. Admittedly, the tyres squeaked a bit. ;)

Offline beet1e

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Three things that could really improve the AH experience
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2004, 09:33:32 AM »
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Originally posted by Shane
imho, it's the guys who *can't* handle the dogfighting aspect very well who want all this realism in other areas to make up for that lack.

:rolleyes:
But by the same token, the guys who want the gaminess (and don't want the realism) want the game modelled in their own image so they can succeed in it, and then think of themselves as the computerised reincarnation of guys like Erich Hartmann. :rolleyes::rolleyes: