Mars - why we're there.

[Octavius]

Of the 30+ missions/probes to Mars, two thirds have been lost/destroyed/complete failures.  

The Russian space program tried 5 or 6 times for a Mars landing and was successfull for 20 seconds with only one.  

Japanese "Nozomi" was lost to failure.  

The last two NASA missions were lost.  One due to a metric error and another due to a software error.  Oops!  

All of these missions were extreeemely expensive failures.  Although the Viking landings were successfull, they were deemed a "disappointment" because it had found nothing... no water, no life, nothing it was programmed to find.  No other Martian missions were attempted for two decades.

Now, at the risk of losing future funding after embarrassing failures, it was absolutely imperitive that the Spirit landing be successfull.  Spirit, however, has achieved nearly the "best case scenerio" and even landed in the 'sweet spot' as some are describing.  

I agree with Gofaster that it saved NASA's credibility and, in a very small sense, "America"... strictly in a scientific way... not to be confused with terrorism or politics or any of the other garbage so often debated here.  

I wanted to get that in, and it'll probably become lost in the rest of the garbage produced in this thread

[Octavius]

Originally posted by Nakhui

Exactly.  A scientific AND philosophical way.

Of ALL the possible locations (billions and billions of galaxies and star systems) to search for life, if we find the existence of life SO close... our next door neighbor, the first place we look... and are successfull, then there exists life everywhere in the known universe(s).  

Thats a pretty damn powerfull find IMO.  

Side benefits would ensue.  Talk of terraforming Mars in the future.  Of course, not until it's sufficiently explored and analyzed (waaay down the line).  Future habitable area for humans?  

Just as the world was "illuminated" when Copernicus discovered that the earth wasn't the center of the solar system/universe, but that planets orbited the Sun, if we find life on Mars, (again the first place we look), then again, I think the world (all of humanity) will be enlightened/illuminated.  Heh, no I'm not speaking of the secret organization

[miko2d]

Dago: No, you said you have a problem with opposition to slave labor.  This would indicate you are in favor of slave labor.

 It ment "My only problem with this mars exploration is the general oppositions to all projects built or funded through slave labor."

 I may not be very punctual while typing fast and Englist is not my native language but I am sure it is obvious to anyone - especially to people familiar with my earlier posts.
 If you have to resort to a typo to attribute a support for slavery to me - which would be contrary to a point I was trying to make in this argument - it just shows your level of maturity.

 
Oh, so glad to hear I am the only who makes personal attacks, yet you fail to address or answer my statement.  Typical.

 I said "It sounds almost like an admission" - which is a qualifier that satisfies the requirements of politeness.
 You said my arguments were too obscure and confusing to you. That is an indication that you may be out of your league. Not every issue may be explained in two words.

 Quite a bold lie that one.  You often dont bother to explain why you think someone fails to understand.

 I only have limited time, so when i am explaining a matter to one person, it can hardly be held against me that I am not explaining something to another person. Especially if such an issue was already covered in my previous posts. Surely, a person seriously interested in explanation is expected to do some search and reading. If he does not, why should I prefer him to someone with a more fresh issue?

Telling them they dont understand the issue is doing just that. You told me I dont understand money. Damn funny, specially considering you know nothing about me, know nothing about my background

 I base my opinion on what I read here that you post. I believe you do not understand about money. So what? Why do you find it so offensive? Even if I am incorrect?


Well thank you for acknowledging my suspicion. You are simply parroting Libertarian views taken from a newsletter.

 OK, you claimed that libertarian views are based on the conspiracy theories. When I countered that obvious nonsense, you said that it confirms your opinion that I am saying the same things that libertarian sources. Does it mean you were aware that libertarian views are not based on conspiracy theories? Then why did you claim otherwise?

 Also, you are acting as if I am hiding my libertarian views. Damn right I am a libertarian an I read a lot of libertarian books and other sources. I've also read many anti-libertarian books like Keynes' "General Theory", Capital, Mein Kamph, The Federalist Papers, etc.
 I study the wrong views as carefully as the right ones - how they originate, why they hold such an influence over people.

The USA is the sum of it's whole. When you attack the government, you attack the leaders the people have chosen to represent them.

 So what? At no point in the last decade was the government elected by more that a quarter of the electorate. And even if it was elected unanimously, why woudl it be wrong to criticise the government - this particular one or the very concept of totalitarian government in general?

it's a fundemental right and responsibility necessary to keep us free and to retain our rights. But you dont do that.

 Retain our rights from infringement by the government. So by illustrating how they are increasingly infringed, I contrubute as much as anyome can hope to preserving them.

 miko

[Saurdaukar]

Miko - WTF does any of your agenda have to do with the Mars landing?

[Skuzzy]

What a concept.  Someone actually trying to keep a thread on topic.

[Octavius]

It's not lost yet.

Agendatards get lost.  Mars is much more fascinating.

[FUNKED1]

" Mars - why we're there."

White Collar Welfare  

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by Hooligan
We are on mars because of 1) Sputnik and 2) Bad government programs rarely go away.

Hooligan

Hi Jay

[Tuomio]

Originally posted by Octavius
Side benefits would ensue.  Talk of terraforming Mars in the future.  Of course, not until it's sufficiently explored and analyzed (waaay down the line).  Future habitable area for humans?  
 

I dont believe that Mars could be ever terraformed, since it doesent have magnetic core like Earth has. Everything that sun sends to Mars hits the surface. There isnt anything on the Mars valuable enough to be transported to Earth. Only thing there is to do is to study its geological history, which will reveal what it looked like in the past. It would be interesting to know whether it had magnetic core previously and why it stopped, could that happen to Earth too.

Earth will be the best place to be in this solar system for humans always, there is not much reasons to send humans to other planets. But its the proving ground of future robots. Even today many robots surpass humans in the things that they were designed for, only thing that they lack currently is the versatility. That will change soon.

[Dago]

First you say this:

After I say that a person does not understand something, I go to a great length to elaborate my point so that a person understood it.

Then you say this:

I only have limited time, so when i am explaining a matter to one person, it can hardly be held against me that I am not explaining something to another person.

You tell someone they don't understand, or they know nothing about an issue or subject, blow them off, and you now offer contradictory comments.  Of course, your second quote here is all BS anyway, you say that now because it sounds good you think, but it isn't true and doesnt represent what you really have done in the past.  And you dont have limited time, you spend countless hours on this board.

If you have to resort to a typo to attribute a support for slavery to me -

I will accept your language issues as reason enough here, even I dont think you are in favor of slave labor, just wanted you to clarify that statement.  I still have no clue how you found slave labor relevant to the Mars exploration.  I am pretty sure all NASA employees are paid a salary and allowed to go  home after work.

I base my opinion on what I read here that you post. I believe you do not understand about money. So what? Why do you find it so offensive?  

What I find offensive is you making blanket condescending statements about me or others just to try and make yourself seem to hold a superior position in an arguement.  Do that through knowledge and rebuttal, not through a tactic belittling others.

Retain our rights from infringement by the government. So by illustrating how they are increasingly infringed, I contrubute as much as anyome can hope to preserving them.

When a little dog nips at your heels, you get fast on your feet.  You might think this is a good thing, getting quick to jump away, but after a while, you just get tired.  Eventually you just kick the dog and move about your business.   Your coming on this board constantly complaining about government is tiring.  As I mentioned before, others use this board for enjoyment, to share jokes, pictures, stories, ask questions and enjoy a discussion or two.  You only use it to complain about our government and point out the things you find wrong with our country.  You exhibit a one track, depressing mind.  If you are so miserable with the USA, if everything is wrong here, I honestly feel you would probably be happier elsewhere.  Maybe Beetle has an extra bed, he doesnt like the USA either.


dago

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by miko2d
miko

Would you like to buy a clue?

NASA and the space program has netted more good in the conversion of military and space science technology into consumer goods.

This process is called spinoff.

Here check out this web site which details technologies invented for space and now used by every one.

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinoff2003/spin03.pdf

[Octavius]

Originally posted by Tuomio
I dont believe that Mars could be ever terraformed, since it doesent have magnetic core like Earth has. Everything that sun sends to Mars hits the surface. There isnt anything on the Mars valuable enough to be transported to Earth. Only thing there is to do is to study its geological history, which will reveal what it looked like in the past. It would be interesting to know whether it had magnetic core previously and why it stopped, could that happen to Earth too.

[/b]

I would think something disasterous had happened at one time.  Perhaps a meteor smashed into it, blocking the sun, freezing Mars in the process.  Impossible to tell presently, but somehow, saying Mars had a magnetic core at some time, Mars as a whole cooled off dramatically.  There is evidence it once had plate tectonics as Earth does now... the gigantic "Mars canyon" running about 1/5 the circumference of the planet.  Olympus Mons and the three smaller Volcanos... possibly spewed anything molten down below and thus added to the cooling.  Who knows?  I'd sure like to.

Earth will be the best place to be in this solar system for humans always, there is not much reasons to send humans to other planets.

 

This is true.  But only because humans have evolved.  Take sight for example:  Had the sun emitted nothing but, say, radio waves, perhaps life on earth would have developed "sight" by radio waves instead of the visible spectrum.

[miko2d]

Saurdaukar: Miko - WTF does any of your agenda have to do with the Mars landing?

 It was not funded by voluntary contributions but by the resources coercively extracted, without regard to the preferences of the people who had to pay for it.

 If anyone formed a private company with an intent of exploring and exploiting  Mars, nearspace, etc., I would most likely have purchased shares - provided I approved their methods, priorities, etc.


Dago: I still have no clue how you found slave labor relevant to the Mars exploration. I am pretty sure all NASA employees are paid a salary and allowed to go home after work.

 The taxes, Dago. When one pays taxes, he/she has no say in how much to pay and how it gets spent. When a 50% of products of person's labor are taken away under threat of violence, it's a form of slavery.

You might think this is a good thing, getting quick to jump away, but after a while, you just get tired. Eventually you just kick the dog and move about your business. Your coming on this board constantly complaining about government is tiring. As I mentioned before, others use this board for enjoyment, to share jokes, pictures, stories, ask questions and enjoy a discussion or two.

 You may be right here. But by the same token, why do you care to read and answer my posts? Just add me to your ignore list.
 I am very interested what views the education system and media instilled in people. I also know that some people get interested in my ideas and contact me for more info. Not everyone cares to publicly admit it but I would not waste my time if my posting here was completely fruitless.

 miko

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Octavius


I would think something disasterous had happened at one time.  Perhaps a meteor smashed into it, [/B]

Eh there's not "perhaps" about it... mars is pox marked with meteor impacts... as well as the mooon.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Nakhui
Eh there's not "perhaps" about it... mars is pox marked with meteor impacts... as well as the mooon.

I think it would be interesting to know how often Mars gets nailed cataclysmically, and how it affects the planet's orientation to the sun.

Now that we can land a probe with some degree of accuracy, the possibility of landing a permanently-transmitting station there is interesting.