Author Topic: thank you allies ;)  (Read 967 times)

Offline bikekil

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thank you allies ;)
« on: January 13, 2004, 02:37:23 AM »
NY POST

Ok.. maybe it;s too idealistic ;) Actually stopping the "red hordes" were fighting for our freedom. I don't believe we had some thought about saving the europe at that time...
but other then that it should be a good lecture :)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2004, 02:41:05 AM by bikekil »

Offline Asmodan

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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2004, 02:44:18 AM »
Almoust like in good old times Bike....

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2004, 02:46:48 AM »
Asmo :) Nice to see you readin the board still

Offline Asmodan

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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2004, 02:50:20 AM »
Im droping by some times....

Trying to folow what is going on .... Specialy in AH.

Offline Scootter

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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2004, 07:32:47 AM »
Thanks Poland,

Offline straffo

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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2004, 07:53:26 AM »
I'm pissed.

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2004, 11:08:34 AM »
Interesting article.
Some gross generalizations there, but oh well :)

As for current money issues, I remember reading something in polish press about US backing out from paying for some of the costs related to Iraq mission which pissed some people off.
On the other hand, 4 new nato bases are being set up in Poland which should help.

oh, and Poland didn't go to iraq because poles love freedom, by en-large most poles were against it, just as much as french. Our government chose to involve us, hence we went.
Doesn't sound as glorious now, does it ? :)

But... for average NYPost reader few stereotypes with couple of generalizations to draw conclusions is usually enough :)

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2004, 11:25:00 AM »
Asmoooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooo!  :D

Offline Cerceuilvolant

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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2004, 12:37:44 PM »
Quote
Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer and the author of "Beyond Baghdad."


:rofl

I'm OK to give him 2€ to let him make studies. Anybody else?

Offline Krotki

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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2004, 12:55:52 PM »
Even if the Polish government forced her troops to Iraq, still make's me wonder if the United States has the fortitude to survive as a nation over the centuries as Poland has. In a lot of ways unknown to most Americans that nation has helped us more than any other ever thought of doing since people starting settling here. Wake up America and find out who your true friends and allies are. Where were Britian and France when Poland needed them in 1939.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2004, 01:44:55 PM »
What did the Poles do? They immediately saved Western civilization yet again. In the now-forgotten "Miracle on the Vistula," a patched-together Polish army turned back the Red hordes headed for Berlin. One of history's most brilliant campaigns, it saved defeated Germany from a communist takeover.

What did this guy smoke?...

What is really "now forgotten" is that Polish army invaded Soviet country on April, 25th, 1920, and on May, 6th took Kiev. (!!!)

A "patched-together Polish army" was 5 times bigger then opposing forces of Soviet South-Western front.

So, as usual we have a strange distortion of history: noone cares that "red hordes" were kicking invaders out of our country all the way from Kiev.

Polish army saved Germany from "communist takeover"? Why only Germany and not France, Italy, UK and Canada?

I have all possible respect towards Poland and it's people, but I hate when someone shamelessly rewrites history :mad:

Offline straffo

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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2004, 01:54:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krotki
Even if the Polish government forced her troops to Iraq, still make's me wonder if the United States has the fortitude to survive as a nation over the centuries as Poland has. In a lot of ways unknown to most Americans that nation has helped us more than any other ever thought of doing since people starting settling here. Wake up America and find out who your true friends and allies are. Where were Britian and France when Poland needed them in 1939.


And where was Wilson in 1920 ?

It was point 13 of Wilson point...

Offline fd ski

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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2004, 02:52:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
What did the Poles do? They immediately saved Western civilization yet again. In the now-forgotten "Miracle on the Vistula," a patched-together Polish army turned back the Red hordes headed for Berlin. One of history's most brilliant campaigns, it saved defeated Germany from a communist takeover.

What did this guy smoke?...

What is really "now forgotten" is that Polish army invaded Soviet country on April, 25th, 1920, and on May, 6th took Kiev. (!!!)

A "patched-together Polish army" was 5 times bigger then opposing forces of Soviet South-Western front.

So, as usual we have a strange distortion of history: noone cares that "red hordes" were kicking invaders out of our country all the way from Kiev.

Polish army saved Germany from "communist takeover"? Why only Germany and not France, Italy, UK and Canada?

I have all possible respect towards Poland and it's people, but I hate when someone shamelessly rewrites history :mad:


And ladies and gents - Boroda is right.
Poland attacked USSR right along with UK and others after the revolution. Then it almost paid the price being the only nation that engaged with exposed borderline :) Talk about reckless :)

And yes, it was a miracle on Vistula - we should have gotten our tulips kicked. Somehow, we survived.

So I guess the lesson is.. .history is never straight and rarely simple :D

Offline bikekil

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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2004, 02:55:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda I have all possible respect towards Poland and it's people, but I hate when someone shamelessly rewrites history :mad: [/B]


What is really interesting for me is that someone in the states take care about it :)

Boroda, as most if not every country that have a border were fighting by the ages. I'm not a history master but as i remember we could date "our" fights as a more then 1000y old (or longer).

Once we are inviders then you were. That's the way it been by ages.

It's not bad and it's not good. I'd say it's normal in a relations between the nations in europe. That's true we've saved the Vienna as it's true We've invaded Kiev.

Thing are more complicated when we think about the Lwow. We claim it as a Polish city and it's currently not ( i believe it stays that way with some good share of poles living there... about 40%? I'd never start a fight for it and i believe it's good like it is now). This is because the land was yours/ours/outs/ours and so on...

As for the "red hordes" actually your army was a red one (not a expert in a Russian history again, but Red army destroyed the White russian army... killed the "white elite"?). At that time we were more white then red for sure. Looking for that perspective "red horde" is offending, but "red army" is true.

Your attack on our lands at 17.09.1939 is a fact. Also a fact is that after the was you (and by you i mean you as a country not as a people) was not welcome here, but you ruled us. Russians 've killed many of our officers duriong and after the war.
Then i have to mentin the Polas murdered a lot of Russions when had the chance. I never forgot about it... in both cases it's just how things looked here. Right or wrong it just been that way.

I'm not that old but i do remember being insuling and calling a lier because of saying that Russia attacked Poland in '39 when i was in a primary school (Happened that my grandpa was a soldier and were fighting on our eastern borded, then prisonec 40km from Russia). Was it shameless rewriting a history? Of course. That is what Russia did and called the attack a "brotherhood help".

We (Poland and Russia) are same fair here.
Also i do like Russians as a people (know 20+ guys about my age). They are not guilty about the history as i am not about what we did :) We just living on the same part of the world and have our history.

Offline Saurdaukar

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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2004, 03:07:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I'm pissed.


Pretty safe to assume I should be happy, then.