Author Topic: Canadian communism - Loni must die.  (Read 2481 times)

Offline Sixpence

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Canadian communism - Loni must die.
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2004, 03:51:01 PM »
So if a donor comes forward, but realizes the person with 6 months has some cash, the person with 6 days is outta luck. OK, I can understand that, although I think it stinks like yesterdays diapers. But as far as cadavers go, I think the need goes first, not the money.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline miko2d

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Canadian communism - Loni must die.
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2004, 03:51:40 PM »
rpm371: Miko...is there ANYTHING about North America you like? Nothing personal, but if it's so bad, why not move?:confused:

 I am opposed to a socialist invasive state in general, not North America in particular.
 There is not currently a place on earth that has a free state not afflicted with a great degree of socialism.

 My criticism of US government arrangement in particular is not to achieve some kind of gratification and make you feel bad - it is my small contribution towards preserving the vestiges of the free market to which we owe our prosperity and hopefully rolling the socialism back - to the state as it was envisioned by the Founding Fathers at least.

 I dislike Soviet Union very much - that's why I would hate USA turning into one.

 If you see a sorry picture of a person slowly drowning and get upset and try to persuade people around you to help you save him, would you consider an advice "do not look at that bad thing, go look at some supermodel instead" a good advice?

 If you want to ignore my point and insted present me as some rabid nay-sayer and ill-wisher to the country I live in - it's your prerogative. In which case I may ask, why the heck do you keep reading my posts?

 miko
« Last Edit: January 22, 2004, 04:00:29 PM by miko2d »

Offline miko2d

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Canadian communism - Loni must die.
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2004, 03:58:49 PM »
Sixpence: So if a donor comes forward, but realizes the person with 6 months has some cash,

 If you name me one case in history of this earth when a healthy person has just walked from the street into a hospital and offered to donate a kidney to anyone a doctor thinks should get a kidney, I will hit myself on the head with a rubber chicken.

 If you demonstrate that such a self-sacrificing person would have suddenly changed his mind and refused a donation to the needy person in favor of a wealthy person, I will hit myself with a real chicken. :)

the person with 6 days is outta luck. OK, I can understand that, although I think it stinks like yesterdays diapers. But as far as cadavers go, I think the need goes first, not the money.

 If the deceased marked it appropriately, it will be so just like it is now.
 If he did not - there will at least be a chance to persuade the family to donate his/her organs for a relatively small sum of money.
 Selling an organ form a young healthy man may require a lot of money but selling an organ that will be buried tomorrow? A few hundred or thousand dollars would be sufficient.

 miko

Offline Sixpence

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Canadian communism - Loni must die.
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2004, 04:19:54 PM »
How many times have you watched the news where a person has a few days to live and put the word out for a donor. And people do show up, most do not match, but sometimes a donor is comes forward. But they usually do not ask for cash. Good thing you said rubber chicken.

Now, I have not been able to find one case to point out, but given the info, you would assume some of the living donors were last minute.

213 people were transformed by a kidney transplant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3052423.stm


Righ now the only supply of organs is from cadavers who checked the donation box and rare voluntary donors helping the people they know.

Living donors now outnumber the traditional source of organs - cadavers - with 6,613 living donors last year, more than triple the number in 1990, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/08/10/loc_livingdonors10.html

If the deceased marked it appropriately, it will be so just like it is now. If he did not - there will at least be a chance to persuade the family to donate his/her organs for a relatively small sum of money.

Ok, let me see if I understand this correctly, if my sister dies, I could sell her organs to the highest bidder?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2004, 04:57:58 PM by Sixpence »
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Boroda

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Canadian communism - Loni must die.
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2004, 09:54:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d

 I dislike Soviet Union very much - that's why I would hate USA turning into one.


Miko, you have to admit that USSR had many great achievements and nice things like free health care and free education, and don't tell me that it was low quality.

Where else in the world you could have a free neuro-surgical operation to sew back cut-off fingers for a village boy?...

Please, tell me what do you think about my sentence: if the girl wants to have a kidney transplantation for free (covered by health insurance, whatever) - she has to wait, and if she is eager to pay for it - she can go abroad and find "commercial" (read - criminal) way to get a kidney. Her life depends on it - so she has the best motivation to find nessesary people.

Canadian laws ensure that there will be no "stealing" of organs or forced donors. I think that availible organs are distributed under strict control, and/or by lottery.

Offline miko2d

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Canadian communism - Loni must die.
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2004, 11:35:55 AM »
Sixpence: How many times have you watched the news where a person has a few days to live and put the word out for a donor. And people do show up

 And of course a transplant to a person who is dying is much less effective. It would be much better to transplant an organ to a person who has 2 years to live rather than 2 weeks but hardly many voluntary donors would show up - while a few paid ones just might.
 And what to do if a person is not a cute young girl but a balding middle-age man who does not attract so many offers?
 Offering money will not make fewer free donors show up. In fact, many more people may wish - or be able to - donate money to buy an organ that to donate it themselves.
 Having children to think of, I will not donate an organ under any conditions now unless it's my wife or child. But I just might donate a few hundred dollars to pay for someone's transplant.

Now, I have not been able to find one case to point out, but given the info, you would assume some of the living donors were last minute.

 And in Canada they would be turned away. Anyway, last minute or not, an ability to sell their organs would not diminish the supply of such voluntary free donors.

Living donors now outnumber the traditional source of organs - cadavers - with 6,613 living donors last year, more than triple the number in 1990, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing.

 Cadavers are the only assured source of organs that is provided by the state or healthcare system. Living donors are found through private efforts, which puts people without access to some resources - cuteness, public voice - at a disadvantage.

Ok, let me see if I understand this correctly, if my sister dies, I could sell her organs to the highest bidder?

 That's how it is now. If she does not leave explicit instructions and you have a power of atterney or some such legal stuff, if, God forbid, your sister dies, you may be (if there is a need) approached by a hospital representative and asked if you'd like to donate her organs to some desperate people.
 You can concent or refuse.

 With my system if you refused, a family of the dying person in need of the transplant would approach you and try to change your opinion by offering you some money. The worst that can happen is that an extra person will be saved - or at least relinquish the next free transplant to another one in line -  and you end up with some cash that you can donate in your sister's name or whatever.
 It does not seem so terrible to me.


Boroda: Miko, you have to admit that USSR had many great achievements and nice things like free health care and free education, and don't tell me that it was low quality.

 The education in general was superior to american one because it was as much socialist but not afflicted by the fads, power struggles or affirmative actions. It had great teachers because pay in other areas was the same and work not so bad, so the capable people were not distracted to industry or science or business. It was not good for the society in general since it is not the optimal use of resources but education was mostly good as a result.

 The healthcare was absolutely low quality compared to the american one. It was free - true. So what?
 US heathcare in 1930 was great and high quality too but having 1930 level of quality healthcare in the USA of 1990 would have been considered atrocious.
 That's what it was in USSR - people had free quality 1930 healthcare in 1990. In the cities at least. In the country it was 1910.

 Even in Canada the socialist system is illustrated by shortages. I've just read in a newspaper about some place when one have to wait several weeks for a free CAT-scan while for $300 one can has a CAT-scan for his cat on a moment's notice.

 miko
« Last Edit: January 23, 2004, 11:39:34 AM by miko2d »