Author Topic: Tech Quest of Apache Gun film (Read 566 times)

BGBMAW · « **on:** January 21, 2004, 01:10:23 PM »

ok..so on that film....

1) How far away can an Apache accuratly use the 30 mil cannons?

2) if what ever distance...can the nme not hear the chopper blades?

3) What kind of ammo load out would typically be in the belts of the 30 mil ammo? HE-AP-?? mix?

Love
BiGB
xoxo

BlckMgk · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2004, 01:20:00 PM »

At close to a mile, its hard to hear a chopper in hover. But on a clear, quite night I'd bet you could.

I'm guessing it looks to be a mile, when he zooms out hes a bit a way..

And to stay with my theory... I'd say a mile accurate with that 30mm.. hehe j/k about this last one... Don't know but those laser range finders equiped really make that gun accurate, the computers on those choppers estimate for a whole bunch of things that are associated with distance from target. wind/trajectory/movement of chopper/height/distance etc..

bigsky · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2004, 01:32:45 PM »

here you go. the problem with the gun is they had to shorten the barrel so that rocket or missles wouldnt hit the barrel if the gun was turned at angle. the gun would jam after a few rounds. i dont know if the army ever solved that problem.
http://www.voodoo.cz/ah64/arm.html

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2004, 01:48:47 PM »

Range was reading 360/370/380 yards on the video.
Ammo would be HEDP (high explosive dual purpose) which has a shaped charge in the front for armor penetration and also has a significant HE and fragmentation effect for soft targets. They also have an HEI (HE incendiary) round but I think HEDP is what they usually carry.
I had the good fortune to get a hands on tour of an AH-64 squadron (WB Con 2000, thx -trip-), and the things aren't particularly loud even when flying right over your head. They are damned scary looking though, my gawd.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2004, 02:12:39 PM »

BTW Trip posted about the film here: http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&postid=359061#post359061

cpxxx · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2004, 02:17:00 PM »

The Apache 30mm can reach out and be accurate to 4km (about 2.5 miles). There was some discussion on the tape about auto ranging which I suspect means they were standing off at the limit of range.

As to whether they could be heard. Well I believe the AH-64 is relatively quiet in military helicopter terms. But I suspect the real reason the nme were surprised is that the air over Iraq these days probably reverberates with the sound of American choppers 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I doubt if that Apache was alone either so a couple of invisible choppers somewhere 'over there' in the dark would not be too worrying for the nme. On top of that I would guess that the average Iraqi is not completely au fait with the night vision capabilities of military these days.

Even in daylight out at two miles with a narrow front profile and using a bit of terrain masking. It would be hard to spot an Apache. The British Army Air Corps had a favourite party piece at airshows. All the choppers would clear off. All would be quiet until the commentator would announce that there were 10 or 12 choppers out there watching the crowd. At the point they would simultaneously rise into view to gasps from the audience.

Chairboy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2004, 02:35:31 PM »

When I watched the tape, it looked like they kept looking in the direction of the Apache, as if they heard something. Also, their movements seemed to suggest that they were nervous and maybe thought they were under observation. Am I alone in reading this into their behavior?

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2004, 03:00:53 PM »

The first two guys were definitely acting worried. Also when they fire the first (errant) burst, you can see the guy crossing the field speed up big time. I think he realized at that point that "it's on" and he needed to unwrap that weapon.

PS I think it might have been an SA-7/SA-14. Too long for an RPG launcher.

Staga · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2004, 03:20:28 PM »

It could also be nothing but a king-size bong those guys were going to light up. Speculating is always easy.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2004, 03:21:28 PM »

Hmm maybe the footage is actually from the "war on drugs", in Humboldt County?
NO BLOOD FOR CHIBA!!!

Hawklore · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2004, 03:42:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FUNKED1
The first two guys were definitely acting worried. Also when they fire the first (errant) burst, you can see the guy crossing the field speed up big time. I think he realized at that point that "it's on" and he needed to unwrap that weapon.

PS I think it might have been an SA-7/SA-14. Too long for an RPG launcher.

I agree on your body sign reading...

They knew it was coming..and finnishing of an injured guy, I don't see a problem with that, he coulda surrenderd, he could of put his hands up, but of course that could of been what he was trying to do..

Anyone else seem to think that there is some1 in far right truck? Looks like some warm/hot liquid explodes in the pickup..

mrblack · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2004, 03:45:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hawklore
I agree on your body sign reading...

Anyone else seem to think that there is some1 in far right truck? Looks like some warm/hot liquid explodes in the pickup..

I was thinking the same thing.
I am just glad I am not on the buisness end of that thing:(

Hawklore · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2004, 03:48:07 PM »

Indeed..I woulda surrendered..and the poor idiot who stuck his head out..

tapakeg · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2004, 06:05:03 PM »

I was a crewchief on the Apache's in the 101st for 6 years and they are defenetly pretty quiet. Quiet being a relative term for helicopters in general. Many times an Apache would be on final fairly close and a Uh-1h or Ah-1 would be a good distance behind it and you would hear the others over the closer Apache. Also, the terrain can sometimes mask or "throw" the sound. We would hear them coming, and not be able to really identify from what direction they were coming from. I don't think there were trees or anything else to baffle the noise, but the guys in the film did not hear the Apache before the shots were fired. Don't know the distance or ammo type.

Tapakeg

BGBMAW · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2004, 09:00:47 PM »

excellent ifno..thank you

PS. i wonder if the pilots are still alive that found out the gun barrles were to long wiht missles on?

Salute
BiGB
xoxo