Author Topic: Speed vs Manuverability  (Read 697 times)

Offline aMirage

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Speed vs Manuverability
« on: January 25, 2004, 02:52:11 PM »
Hi all,

newb here.  Just play playin about a week so far and have been having fun (although frustrated at times :))

I have a question about fighting against planes that are superior turners.  For instance an La7 vs a Spit9.  

On a merge at co-alt lets say I'm in a La7 and pull a vertical turn on the Spit.  The Spit is gonna try and turn on me, but since i'm faster i'll keep him in the distance to create some space.  Problem I'm having is when I eventually turn back to make a pass, i can't get a good angle for a shot on him because he can cut the angle off with the better manuverability.  Eventually I seem to burn all my E and he's able to take my 6.  

I guess i'm not convserving E properly, any advice?

Offline Nomak

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2004, 05:14:01 PM »
Boy thats a tough one to learn when you are new.  It will all come with time.

If you like I can work with you some 1 on 1.  It would be easier for me to show you than to try to explain it.  Although mabye someone will give an explaination a try.

e mail me if you are interested.

dwisok@yahoo.com
« Last Edit: January 25, 2004, 05:16:08 PM by Nomak »

Offline aMirage

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2004, 06:35:59 PM »
I've worked with some trainers, i was just curious to hear what people had to say.

Offline simshell

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2004, 07:06:43 PM »
when im in a much faster plane i try for a rope a dope and if he does not bite then il still end up way above him in a nice spot were i can just boom zoom him from up high

this works great in the 109G-10 P38 and well work for the other fast planes

but trying to outloop a spit5 is hopeless yes the LA7 is going to get more speed but the spit5 well be able to gain like crazy during the loops and since the spitfire gains speed very well and handles so well at low speed you well be beat
known as Arctic in the main

Offline simshell

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2004, 07:13:31 PM »
when you go vertical with the spit5 just try to get higher he wont be able to gain E like your LA7 can and then start boom zooming him you have the firepower to end it real fast if you get a shot for a sec on the weak spitfire it well destroy it

rope a dopes work great for this to if you think he well bite
known as Arctic in the main

Offline Soda

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2004, 08:44:31 PM »
aMirage,  have you checked my webiste? Soda's Aircraft Evaluations Look there for some specific tips on each aircraft.

Generally, in the case of La7 vs Spit, you should evaluate your starting positions early.  The Spit, especially a Spit IX, can put on energy pretty quickly and can hold energy really well.  You know the SPit's superior low speed turning will easily beat an La7.  So, you need to try and merge to gain position (or energy) advantage and then keep the fight fast.  Don't let it get slow on you or you will be in trouble quickly.  The problem with most La7 vs Spit engagements is the Spit comes in with altitude/energy excess and can pin down an La7 and thus force the fight slower and slow (or more and more turning) which quickly favors the Spit.

On any reversal where you extend, make sure you extend enough to get your nose around and face the enemy again.  This is a common mistake for newer players, they try and reverse at D2.0 and find themselves not quite able to get guns on the other guy and thus are losing angles right from the start.  It's better to extend longer, D4.0+, maybe even out of icon range, then reverse.  This gives you a chance to merge at least even.

Finally, it will really depends on the merge in a fight like this.  You need to merge well and watch what the Spit does.  If he is Co-E with you then he is likely to be able to at least match almost anything you try and thus you have to be very very careful. If you can merge to a dominant position (say by zooming higher on the merge) then you can force the situation for a while.  It'll come down to timing your shots and making a snapshot on the Spit as he will likely try and break-turn and make the shots hard.  Most of that is timing and knowing the La7 guns.

Hope that helps.  There are lots of variables to deal with in any fight so no single description/tactic covers even half the situations.

Offline aMirage

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2004, 11:08:30 PM »
Thanks soda.  I have checked out your site, it's a great resource!

Offline Hap

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2004, 12:17:38 PM »
keep separation.  a better turning plane will try to lure a faster but worse turning plane into a turn fite.

a faster but worse turning plane b n z until the advantage is clear or try to rope him.

Offline aMirage

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2004, 12:27:41 PM »
Can you explain to a newb what roping is. :D

Offline Hap

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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2004, 01:03:11 PM »
rope = climbing with a speed advatage so that the other plane follows you up and stalls.  you then kick around and kill him.

Offline aMirage

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2004, 01:18:44 PM »
Ah yes, thx.

Offline Xjazz

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Speed vs Manuverability
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2004, 03:15:07 PM »