Author Topic: Ricers at play (Read 1984 times)

Dowding · « **Reply #60 on:** January 27, 2004, 12:38:37 PM »

Well, we were talking at cross purposes then. People who spend vast sums on cosmetic changes seem to be a litttle misguided. I especially hate the neon lights they put on cars these days, or the blue LEDs you see on the crappiest cars going.

The only person I know who mods cars owns an Evo VII. He's got it at 400 BHP now.

lazs2 · « **Reply #61 on:** January 27, 2004, 01:31:28 PM »

hmm... my 69 ElCamino is dark green and not at all flashy. I can park it near any ricer you can think of and will get at least as much attention... at least by people I would bother to talk to.

My Healey is the other end of the scale. It is pretty outrageous simply because it is something that not many people see very often and the look and sound scream 666.

I have humiliated a lot of moviegoers on the freeway lately .... they don't seem to understand that the object of a big block is to punch holes in the air at very high speed.

lazs

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #62 on:** January 27, 2004, 01:40:36 PM »

Yeah Lazs but your vehicles require a certain amount of mechanical skill to put together, if not all that much money. The typical "bad ricer" has lots of money, less brains, and way less mechanical inclination. They are guys who don't know **** about cars beyond what they saw at the movie theater.

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #63 on:** January 27, 2004, 01:56:34 PM »

I'm sorry, if it goes "Whee whee whee", it gets no respect at all from me. Not even in the state of a ballpark of jealousy.

Vermillion · « **Reply #64 on:** January 28, 2004, 07:09:25 AM »

Quote

The only person I know who mods cars owns an Evo VII. He's got it at 400 BHP now

Dowding, that could easily be true. And I'm not hacking on your friends car, I'm sure its fast. But don't confuse peak horsepower ratings of a turbocharged car with the peak horsepower rating of a bigblock. The 427's hp to rpm curve is much more linear in comparison to the more exponential shpaed turbo charged engine. In other words they may rate the same at each of their peaks, but over the full range of the engine, the big block is much more powerful.

And if you want to get attention, there is NOTHING like the rumble of a big block entering a parking lot full of ricers to get heads to turn.

But just to get back to my original point about cost versus performance. A recent article in a Hot Rod magazine that my father lent to me, about modding a standard Mustang GT with the 4.6L V8 engine. You can pick up one of these cars in good condition and low miles (one of the earlier years say a 96 thru a 98 or so) for anywhere between $8k and $12k.

There are supercharger kits (the one they featured in the article was the ATI Procharger) available for this car for around $4k to $5k. In the test car for the article, the supercharger is rated for 12-14 lbs boost, but they de-tuned it for this car to 8 lbs boost.

And the performance they were getting was incredible. They claimed almost 378hp at 5,500rpm with 396lb/ft at the wheels on the dyno. And that was just the initial installation tests, with proper setup and testing, they expect well over 400hp. FYI the tests are available at http://popularhotrodding.com

So for somewhere between $12k and $15k you could have a SCREAMING car for a street race, for a few evenings of work looking for a used Mustang and a few weekends of installing the supercharger.

How much did that 400hp in that Evo cost?

Seriously

no hacking on the Evo I'm sure its nice. But how many kids out there have WAYYYYY more than $15k in their Accords or Civics?

Dowding · « **Reply #65 on:** January 28, 2004, 07:48:42 AM »

Brand new from Japan, I think it was £28,000 including import costs. I don't know how much he has spent on it, but it is a fair amount - £10 grand maybe? No cosmetic changes - all under the bonnet.

Your points regarding torque curve are perfectly valid, but with AWD I should think getting the power down and under control with a light-weight car and engine, especially on the type of roads we have over here, would be easier compared to a heavy large capacity motor. I also think the 0-60 acceleration would be more favourable for your 'ricer' in most cases. Of course, after this, the pure brute force of your big motor comes into play and would easily beat most your turbo car in the long run. Unless you are driving a 1000 hp Nissan Skyline.

But in everyday driving, how often do you get the chance to get up to 120 mph? Over here you'd be lucky if you weren't pulled by the coppers at those speeds, especially down South.

Anyway, I think it's horses for courses. I actually like the sound of your big block, but I prefer the technological wizardry behind the WRC inspired Jap cars. More suited to our twisty narrow roads too - a viper would be rubbish around here.

lazs2 · « **Reply #66 on:** January 28, 2004, 08:37:29 AM »

dowding actually has a point for once. the roads over there really suck. I would much rather build a light car with a large engine though over there. Huffers and turbochargers are simply a way to make the engine think it is bigger.

you can get all alluminum small blocks and stroke em to 427 inch 500-700 hp is easy. put that is an old healey or some other old british roadster and add a 6 speed... That would work over there and you wouldn't have to be seen in a evo or whatever.

my Healey is mre for nostalgia but.. it weighs 2200 lbs. I am in "mild" tune now at around 430 or so hp from my 327 chevy... it is a muncie 4 speed but am thinking of going to the 6 speed richmond like I put in my big block ElCamino.

tranny is $3k... a good centrifical blower small block at 600+ hp would cost me around $7k The car is not slow now with the 430 hp motor. runs 12 sec quarters on street tires. Most people could not really drive it that fast.

In the U.S we have wide roads and a lot of em turn and then go uphill... There is no ricer around that will corner with my hotchiss/bilstein equipped big block elky and then do anything but fade in the rearview mirror on the uphill. With the six speed.... 5500 rpm in 6th translates to 178 mph... I don't want to push that body style that fast but it can be done. I have no doubt the 468 big block will rev as much as I want in any gear.

verm is correct.. the torque curve on a big block is something that has to be experianced. A bown big block is crazy fast.

Also... a 502 inch 502 motor can be had in the crat from GM for $7k complete.... there is also now a 640 inch 750 hp big block crate motor. No mechanical skill required... bolts right into your Chevelle. 454 inch 800 hp small blocks are availbel as aftermarket crate motors.

the limiting factor to all this acceleration wise is tires but... you can allways out tire a front wheel drive car with a rear wheel drive car.

lazs

Cougar68 · « **Reply #67 on:** January 28, 2004, 09:11:20 AM »

The work Chevy has done with the aftermarket crate motors these past few years has been phenomenal. The 502 is one hoss of an engine and like Lazs says is a direct bolt in. I still prefer wrenching on my own, but I'm not going to knock someone for getting it from the factory.

Cougar

lazs2 · « **Reply #68 on:** January 28, 2004, 02:42:28 PM »

My point was... they are relatively cheap and the power levels are unbelievable. I have allways had some of the work on my engines done in any case... like the machining. bolting it all together is no big deal. welll.... maybe a little.

lazs

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #69 on:** January 28, 2004, 02:45:50 PM »

Quote

There is no ricer around that will corner with my hotchiss/bilstein equipped big block elky and then do anything but fade in the rearview mirror on the uphill.

Lazs, with all due respect to the Elky, there are plenty of streetable 10 sec ricers out there that would eat it for breakfast on any kind of track you choose. There is a WRX in Australia that is into the 8's. It takes a lot more money and engineering know-how to get to those power levels than it does with a big block, but it's doable. Also remember that a smaller car has a lot less weight and punches a smaller hole in the air, so they don't need 8 liters to haul ass.

Still, my answer to most ricers who ask "What's the cheapest way to get 400 whp?" is "Chevy Small Block".

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #70 on:** January 28, 2004, 03:38:03 PM »

Vermillion · « **Reply #71 on:** January 28, 2004, 04:17:50 PM »

Quote

"What's the cheapest way to get 400 whp?" is "Chevy Small Block".

Too true. Have you seen the power output on some of the 383 stroker engines (based on a common 350 block) out there?

An interesting article in the same Popular Hot Rodding magazine I was talking about had a custom built street racer, built off a custom frame, all kinds of incredible suspension parts, and a 64 corvette body. I think (if memory is right) that it had a supercharged 502 crate engine in it, tuned to run off normal high octane (92) gas. They were claiming 800hp off the dyno. STUPID fast.

The whole car cost a stupid amount of money, but when your a millionaire you can have custom rods built however you want.

Its all about how much you want to spend !

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #72 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:53:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vermillion

Its all about how much you want to spend !

1.) Reliable
2.) Fast
3.) Inexpensive

Pick two.

Hajo · « **Reply #73 on:** January 28, 2004, 07:55:11 PM »

Cheapest and Easiest thing to do is BUY a car that is quik and looks it....Like a Z3 or Z4 BMW Roadster

vorticon · « **Reply #74 on:** January 28, 2004, 08:54:31 PM »

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