Author Topic: Georgia considers banning 'evolution' (Read 1544 times)

aknimitz · « **on:** January 30, 2004, 07:30:25 AM »

Boy oh boy - you religous folks are something else

From CNN:

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The state's school superintendent has proposed striking the word evolution from Georgia's science curriculum and replacing it with the phrase "biological changes over time."

The change is included in more than 800 pages of draft revisions to Georgia's curriculum that have been posted by the Department of Education on its Web site. The middle and high school standards are expected to be voted on by the state Board of Education in May, after public feedback.

Superintendent Kathy Cox said the concept of evolution would still be taught under the proposal, but the word would not be used. The proposal would not require schools to buy new textbooks omitting the word evolution and would not prevent teachers from using it.

Cox repeatedly referred to evolution as a "buzzword" Thursday and said the ban was proposed, in part, to alleviate pressure on teachers in socially conservative areas where parents object to its teaching.

"If teachers across this state, parents across this state say, 'This is not what we want,' then we'll change it," said Cox, a Republican elected in 2002.

Educators and legislators criticized the proposal, saying science teachers understand the theories behind evolution and how to teach them.

"Here we are, saying we have to improve standards and improve education, and we're just throwing a bone to the conservatives with total disregard to what scientists say," said state Rep. Bob Holmes, a Democrat.

Social conservatives who prefer religious creation to be taught instead of evolution criticized the proposal as well.

"If you're teaching the concept without the word, what's the point?" said Rep. Bobby Franklin, a Republican. "It's stupid. It's like teaching gravity without using the word gravity."

Dowding · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2004, 07:31:35 AM »

Political correctness gone mad.

AKIron · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:02:38 AM »

Sounds like it's not the religious types resorting to an underhanded ploy here.

miko2d · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:20:07 AM »

...said Rep. Bobby Franklin, a Republican. "It's stupid. It's like teaching gravity without using the word gravity."

What a hyppocritical moron. Some people (I am not one of them but I support their rights) do not see how you can teach children about the world without using the word "Christ" or even "Christmass" - which is currently forbidden. The responcibility of a representative is to represent the will of his electorate, not pass judgements on their stupidity.

and we're just throwing a bone to the conservatives with total disregard to what scientists say

The scientists have their vote just like anyone else.

As long as we have democracy and socialist education system, it is idiotic to appeal to reason. Neither democracy not socialism are based on reason but on the arbitrary will of a bunch of easily- manipulated morons.

Send your children to a private school or homeschool if you want them taught right.

miko

aknimitz · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:30:52 AM »

This thread is gonna go to hell in a handbasket, but what the hay!

Evolution is a scientific principle, founded and based in scientific, tangible, real evidence. How can we NOT TEACH THIS in public schools?

Religion, as in Christianity, as in Jesus Christ was crucified and rose from the dead blah blah blah is a series of ficticious principles, founded and based in fiction, nontangible, pretend evidence. How can we teach this in public schools?

Nim

Kieran · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:43:15 AM »

You knew I'd weigh in, and heck, it's another snow day here (out of school) so...

I'm religious, and I think it's a dumb idea. Call it what it is. But if you are really only blaming religious folks, think again. This is a societal problem, where a school administration and board is bending to the will of the people in the community. That's both good and bad- a school should be receptive to its constituency, but it shouldn't be so to the point of bending to capricious whims.

Now Miko makes an excellent point WRT the hypocritical stance taken by people who advocate taking every shred of religious context out of education. There are important historical implications to religion, and there is a connection that is relevant to schools. But... it's gotten to the point where a teacher can get canned for wearing a cross.

All that's really happening here is the battle between secular and religious values are being played out on the schoolground tableau.

Dinger · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:49:57 AM »

Children are always the front line in the battle for ideas.

aknimitz · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:50:24 AM »

Agree with you to a certain point, Kieren. I think not allowing teachers to wear crosses is a bit much, but as with anything, the question then becomes where do you draw the line? If you allow crosses, can they wear shirts of Jesus crucified on the cross, blood dripping from his wrists and neck? After all, its not a grotesque thing at all from a religous perspective, right?

I completely agree that religion has played a very significant role in history. But religion *itself*, i.e. the teachings thereof and the substance of particular faiths, has no place in schools - imho

Nim

lazs2 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:56:31 AM »

I wouldn't be surprised if both biblical theory and evolution were both disproved in the future.

lazs

miko2d · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:58:18 AM »

aknimitz: But religion *itself*, i.e. the teachings thereof and the substance of particular faiths, has no place in schools - imho

If it's a private school, the teachers should teach children whatever the heck the parents pay them to teach. Majority has exactly what it wants and minority also has exactly what it wants - in it's own private school. Everyone's vote is unanimous and decisive. Everyone bears full responcibility for his decisions. That's the beauty of the free market.

If it's a public socialist school, then you should at least be consistent with principles of democracy and allow the majority to determine what to teach their children.

You cannot have it both ways - proclaim the will of majority paramount but then go against it.
Of course the socialist system was designed exactly for that purpose - to ignore the will of majority, minority and everyone else in favor of the views of an "enlightened" elite.

Public school system exists to break children away from the family influence and family values, not to raise children in their parents' values.

miko

AKIron · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:58:37 AM »

Evolution has been hashed and rehashed here and likely this thread will go on and on. You must be bored Nimitz.

Much of what is touted as fact regarding the evolution of the species is little more than conjecture yet accepted by the faithful as scientific fact. I've no problem with it being taught in schools so long as (and like everything else) it is taught truthfully.

Kieran · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2004, 09:06:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by aknimitz
Agree with you to a certain point, Kieren. I think not allowing teachers to wear crosses is a bit much, but as with anything, the question then becomes where do you draw the line? If you allow crosses, can they wear shirts of Jesus crucified on the cross, blood dripping from his wrists and neck? After all, its not a grotesque thing at all from a religous perspective, right?

-snip-

Nim

I guarantee you if a muslim or any minority wearing any comparable religious ornament came into our school not a single person would say a word. I can also assure you many of the same people who are staunch anti-religious when it comes to crosses and such would be on the frontline defending those minorities' right to be "diverse".

Is a simple cross a threat to kids. hehe. We have dress codes for kids, and they work pretty well. The wearing of religious symbols is not an insurmountable problem until you start dealing with unreasonable people. That's when you have to ban them all, but then, you don't really ban them all- just the Christian ones. It's kind of a "white guilt" thing, only replace "white" with "Christian"...

Sandman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2004, 09:10:22 AM »

Funny thing is.. the Georgians often point to Alabama and make jokes about how stupid they are.

aknimitz · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2004, 09:14:06 AM »

Miko - completely agree - all of my comments are directed at public schools. Clearly private schools can teach whatever they like.

I completely disagree with your comments concerning the democratic majority should control what is taught. The majority of parents cannot opt-out of the Constitution ... after all, thats why we have it?

Iron - I know, I shoulda known better.

Nim

Mini D · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2004, 09:21:13 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I wouldn't be surprised if both biblical theory and evolution were both disproved in the future.

I have to agree with that one.

It's funny to watch though... both sides insisting their beliefs are right. Christians with age old "mythology" (for lack of a better word) and evolutionists who've based their whole notion on "It can't of happened that way, so let's concoct a way it could have happened and present it as if it actually happened that way even though we have no real evidence."

Evolution has many glaring holes never proven. There are simply too many assumptions.