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Author Topic: P-47 vs P-51 on a dive  (Read 2939 times)

Offline Blammo

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« on: January 31, 2004, 10:49:02 AM »
Here's the scenario:

Alt for both: ~ 12K
Equal E (with maybe a smidge more on the pony).

I initiated a near veritical (90 degree) dive to break the engagement.  About 2 secs later the pony rolled over to follow me down.  I was at full throttle and WEP.  I assume so was the pony.

At first his gain was very slow and I thought that within a few seconds I would be able to pull away.  Within two seconds on the dive he started gaining on me.  At alt he was about D950.  By the time we passed through 5K he was about 350 - 400 and closing.  I finished pulling out at 1.5 to 2K and he was right on my 6 at 150 to 200.

Question is:  How?  A pony can outdive a P-47?  If so, the P-47 is porked if it is trying to break an engagement with a pony.

So:

What could I have been doing wrong?

or

Are these planes modeled this way?
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Offline WldThing

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2004, 11:26:03 AM »
Well as you mentioned you made almost a 90 degree vertical dive,  the P-51 could have been easy on his stick and rolled down gently to not lose more E than he needed to chase after you,  that is if he was smart.  Plus P-51 faster than P-47 in a dive too i believe,  and im positive its faster in level flight.
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Offline Blammo

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2004, 12:20:13 PM »
Hey, Wildthing:

I know in level flight and straight-line acceleration, the 51 has it all over the Jug, but I never seen anything that said it could outdive it.  Do you know of a resource that might show this?

Also, I did a unload transition into the dive, so I don't think I could have used that much E.
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Offline GODO

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2004, 12:32:19 PM »
Blammo, P51s are probably the best divers of the game, you cant match them with P47s. Go to Dueling Arena, to the highest field and test P51D and P47D30 in a dive to the sea.
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Offline zmeg

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2004, 12:36:48 PM »
In real life P51's were known to catch 262's in a dive.
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Offline Staga

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2004, 12:57:39 PM »
That's possible IF Me-262 was at level flight but if both were in dive... I don't think so or P-51 was capable to pass sound barrier.
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Offline Blammo

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2004, 04:14:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GODO
Blammo, P51s are probably the best divers of the game, you cant match them with P47s. Go to Dueling Arena, to the highest field and test P51D and P47D30 in a dive to the sea.


I think you just made the point:  "P51s are probably the best divers in the game".  Maybe they are modeled differently in the game than in real life?

Anyway, I would be interested in doing some controlled test on this.  Or, at the very least, seeing some data to support the idea a 51 could outdive a 47.  It will very important to me the next time I need to get out of a fight with a pony.
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Offline Kweassa

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2004, 04:38:32 PM »
The only plane outdives the Pony in AH, is the Ta152H.

 ..
 
 Of course, the moment alt drops and and both planes are forced to level the 51D starts to catch up with the Ta slowly.
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Offline GScholz

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2004, 05:42:40 PM »
The diving ability of the P-51 in AH has been questioned many times. The P-47 is a good diver against other planes, but the Pony and Spit seems to be better in the game.
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Offline Hooligan

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2004, 06:00:00 PM »
Look at the wartime test results in "America's Hundred Thousand" on page 605.  Best dive performance in order was P-38G, followed by F4U-1D and P-51D (tied) and then P-47D.  The differences between these 4 were apparently not large, and the ordering in later tests was different.

If the P-51 unloaded during its entry into the dive and you didn't it should have caught you easily.  Also, unless you filmed this and looked at the instruments for both aircraft at the beginning of the event you can't really be sure that the e-states were that close.

Hooligan
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Offline Blammo

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2004, 07:27:57 PM »
Thanks for the reference and the info, Hooligan.  I will check out the resource you mentioned.
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Offline joeblogs

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dive speed
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2004, 09:00:22 PM »
Assuming you both unloaded, with enough time the determining factor will be the critical mach no., which is higher for the P51

-blogs
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Offline YUCCA

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2004, 09:53:54 PM »
Dont mean to bust your bubble but p51 and p47 level acclerate almost exactly the same.  It's just that the p51 has highe top speed.
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Offline lasersailor184

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2004, 11:21:04 PM »
Quote
That's possible IF Me-262 was at level flight but if both were in dive... I don't think so or P-51 was capable to pass sound barrier.


The me262 isn't either.  But anyway, Chuck Yeager was notorious for destroying Me262's with a p51.
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Offline GScholz

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P-47 vs P-51 on a dive
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2004, 11:35:54 PM »
How many did he get? And I'll bet all were vulched on landing.
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