P-47 Performance?

[frank3]

We all know our trusted Thunderbolt has an excellent performance at high altitudes.
My question now is, what do they mean with this? It's speed? Roll rate? Acceleration? Turn rate?

I've done many high altitude dogfights with every version of the P-47 but it's 'performance' didn't impress me that much. I could only do ho's with other fighters (mainly 109's and spits) since I could turn that fast (I needed to make a large turn in order keep my speed) The speed was excellent tho.

[HoHun]

Hi Frank,

>We all know our trusted Thunderbolt has an excellent performance at high altitudes.
>My question now is, what do they mean with this?

Quoting myself from another thread on this board:

If you want to see what the P-47 is really worth, just superimpose the speed and climb graphs of the standard P-47D I'm using for comparison, and those of the Fw 190A-8.

The P-47D is slightly faster below 20000 ft than the boosted Fw 190A-8 (with erhöhtem Ladedruck), and much faster above that altitude. While the Fw 190A-8 has a slight climb rate advantage at low altitude, both types are equal at around 25000 ft, and above that the P-47D gains an advantage.

At 27700 ft, the P-47D is almost 70 mph faster than the Fw 190A-8 - I'd certainly not call that "inferior" :-)

Even the Me 109K-4, though it would easily outclimb the P-47D at any altitude and outrun it just fine at low and medium altitude, couldn't compete with the P-47D's speed above 25000 ft.

As the strategic air war in the ETO raged between 20000 - 30000 ft, the P-47D was certainly better suited for it performance-wise than the Fw 190, and was good enough to take on even the highest-performance Me 109 ever built.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by HoHun
Quoting myself from another thread on this board:

HoHun, you lazy dog, have you signed up to fly here yet?  Some of us (or at least one of us) are (is) looking for you.

- oldman (btw, Frank, keep 47 fast, at all alts, and you will be amazed what it can do.  Try some yo-yos, just keep the speed over 300)

[SixxGunn]

A question about the P47 performance?

Are the performance gains that the Paddle blade Hamilton Standard Constant speed propellers and water injection modeled into the  D25/D30 series.

These 2 changes were in effect during these block production runs.

It improved climb rate by 400 FPM, improved turning.

[bozon]

Originally posted by frank3
We all know our trusted Thunderbolt has an excellent performance at high altitudes.
My question now is, what do they mean with this? It's speed? Roll rate? Acceleration? Turn rate?

I've done many high altitude dogfights with every version of the P-47 but it's 'performance' didn't impress me that much. I could only do ho's with other fighters (mainly 109's and spits) since I could turn that fast (I needed to make a large turn in order keep my speed) The speed was excellent tho.

with wep, the P-47D30 will outclimb a p-51 above 15kft. Above 20kft it will outclimb it even without wep.

also, above 25kft the p-47 is as fast as any of the other fighters or faster.

and last but not least - thin air:
stall speed is MUCH higher in high altidues (true air speed), this means that if you can't pull hard turns high up for long, making turnfighting difficult (good for the p47).
Also, this will make you reach stalling speeds pretty quick and here the exelent stability of the jug becomes a great advantage.
And more - in a zoom climb, you have inertia and prop pull working for you. down low, niks and spits hang on their prop forever - but high up where speeds are higher (TAS) your inertia will be much more important, and who carry inertia better then the fat jug? (plus your relative power/weight ratio is better)

Bozon

[frank3]

So basically it's biggest advantage is the speed.
I've done some research with P-47 vs 109 but the 109 still turns much better at high alts (and doesn't loose much speed) or am I wrong here?

I'll give it a try when someone is willing to climb to 20k

Thanks everyone

[HoHun]

Hi Oldman,

>HoHun, you lazy dog, have you signed up to fly here yet?  Some of us (or at least one of us) are (is) looking for you.

Thanks! Though my usual paranoic self tells me "You're in trouble now - they're looking for you!" ;-)

Argh, the AH2 beta is out and I didn't notice! Well, download started, will take some time but I'm on my way now!

As an old warrior, I'm sure you remember the terrible treatment the Jug received in AW! Though I did better in other fighters, doing just moderately well in THAT Jug dropped more jaws than any of my other stunts :-)

Of course, it was a combination of a little more altitude than the enemy, and a little more speed than the enemy, and a little better SA that did the trick.

OK, OK ... to be honest, the most important factor was the Jug's ability to safely absorb massive battle damage whenever I screwed up :-)

Regards,

Henning (Hohun)

[humble]

I'm far from an expert with a jug...but it's a plane thats often underestimated. I've had plenty of fights with all kinds of planes at lower alts (I almost never fly over 15k) and have done well. I normally fly it with droptank and 1/2 ammo...so if I pickle the tank I usually have about 1/3 fuel (burn it from 1/2 then go to DT). The jug can E fight nicely and is deadly vs spittys and la-7s that stay to fast. Key in a jug is to be aggressive and force the fight early.

[ra]

I've done some research with P-47 vs 109 but the 109 still turns much better at high alts (and doesn't loose much speed) or am I wrong here?

Any advantage the P-47 gains at altitude would be because of its engine/supercharger.  It maintains full horsepower to a higher altitude than most other planes' engines do.  But this won't directly affect turn or roll performance.  Any plane that can turn tighter than a Jug at 1K will turn tighter than a Jug at 25K.  And almost all planes can turn tighter than a Jug.

ra

[lasersailor184]

I know the Germans gave the P47 the nickname "Jabo" (forget the rest of it and what it means) because they hate it.

[straffo]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I know the Germans gave the P47 the nickname "Jabo" (forget the rest of it and what it means) because they hate it.

You seriously need to look up that.

[Wilbus]

It's just another target. My Tank will beat it any day

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by HoHun
As an old warrior, I'm sure you remember the terrible treatment the Jug received in AW!  

Remember it? People like HR used to make fun of me because I kept flying it.  You will be amazed to find that in AH it is actually a pretty good plane, much closer to reality than the AW version.  Lots of fun.

Expect to see you in the CT.

- oldman

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by HoHun
As an old warrior, I'm sure you remember the terrible treatment the Jug received in AW!  

Remember it? People like HR used to make fun of me because I kept flying it.  You will be amazed to find that in AH it is actually a pretty good plane, much closer to reality than the AW version.  Lots of fun.

Expect to see you in the CT.

- oldman

[Sway]

p47 probably shattiest fighter in MA without alt advantage.  Great B&Z plane though, not easy to miss with 8 guns blazin.