Why vulching is/isn't bad

[Blammo]

Vulching, suppressing, whatever you want to call it, seems to be an ongoing topic.  I wanted to see what people's reasons are for thinking it is/isn't bad...hence, this thread.

I used to think vulching was bad an ruined game play.  After sometime I realized it was just another facet of the game.  Now I fall on the other side of the issue.  Here are my reasons why I think vulching isn't bad:

1)  It is historical.  It happened for real in WWII (and other wars/conflicts).

2)  If you get vulched (especially repeatedly) it is really your fault for trying to roll from a capped field.  When you pop up on a suppressed field you are waiving a big neon banner that says "please kill me" at any enemy pilot in there area with ammo or ordenance.  Have a little patience and take off from the next field over.

3)  For myself, it is sometimes fun to roll from a suppressed base to see if I can get up and bring down at least one bandit before I get shot down.

4)  No reasonable alternative.  What are you going to do to stop it?  Make the flak harder to kill?  Make planes invunerable when the first pop in the runway?  All options would really just end up giving people ways to game the game.

There are probably other reasons for an against it, but these are my thoughts.  Anyone else have any reasons for or against it?

[humble]

Vulching is (and always has) been a major part of the game (MA). As the numbers have increased the tendancy for 1 side to overwhelm bases 2 or 3 at a time has increased. Usually when I fly the niggits are grossly outnumbered and it's not uncommon to see multiple bases with 10+ plane caps. When it reaches a point (and it does to much) that no semblance of "air combat" is possible over an entire section of the "front" then game play suffers.

I could care less about the vulching....it's the gangbanging candyprettythang mentality I hate...

[RedDg]

I vulch every chance I get.  And I laugh out loud when the same plane keeps upping:D


The old adage from AW pops into my mind.  "Vulch me once shame on you, vulch me twice shame on me"

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Blammo
1)  It is historical.  It happened for real in WWII (and other wars/conflicts).

True, but what didn't happen was the repeated vulching of the same guy, over and over and over, and the vulcher returning home to receive some sort of military decoration for his services.

[Blammo]

Originally posted by beet1e
True, but what didn't happen was the repeated vulching of the same guy, over and over and over, and the vulcher returning home to receive some sort of military decoration for his services.

True, but in that case, refer to:

Originally posted by beet1e
2) If you get vulched (especially repeatedly) it is really your fault for trying to roll from a capped field. When you pop up on a suppressed field you are waiving a big neon banner that says "please kill me" at any enemy pilot in there area with ammo or ordenance. Have a little patience and take off from the next field over.

If the same guy can repeatedly spawn, then it is only reasonable to allow him to be repeatedly vulched.

[TweetyBird]

An interesting twist would be to make it so if you die, you can't up from the field you just upped from. But then I guess people would just log on and off.

[Zazen13]

From a realism perspective vulching is somewhat realistic, to a point. The allies from 1944 onward routinely sent fighters ahead of the bombers on low level suppression missions. The allies knew exactly where the Germans were going to scramble from, when they were going to scramble and approximately where they were going to form up to resist the bomber forces. The end result was, on many occassions, the Allied fighters were in position to vulch or semi-vulch the Germans as they were scrambling to intercept the bombers.

It was also common practice in the event of imment attack on a field from fighters to scramble as many of their own fighters as quickly as possible to meet the threat. Fighters still on the ground were far more vulnerable than those in the air. This was the case during the early stages of the Battle of Britain, while the focus was still on establishing air supremacy, as well as during the Allied strategic bombing offensive against Germany in 1944/45.

This being said, however, the same guy didn't keep upping in the face of complete control of the skies over a field. But, in an abstract sense that one pilot could represent the many others that would have tried to get their plane airborne to defend their field. We just happen to have the omniscience of knowning it's the same guy. Of course a human being during the war, would jump into a foxhole before his plane if there was zero chance of him surviving take-off.

So, while the act itself is realistic to a point, carried to the extreme, where there is practically zero chance the vulchee will survive long enough to get his wheels up it becomes very unrealistic to the point of detracting from the gameplay.

Zazen

[palef]

Ahh the glow that comes from being repeatedly vulched.

However I have a serious issue to report.

Given the falling standards of accuracy and professionalism in vulchers of late I have been able to formulate the "Palef Theory of Capped Base Defense".

1. Up a Hurri II with 25% fuel from the hanger. 3 of the 6 people capping the base will form an orderly queue and fly directly at you as you exit the hangar. With luck you can get two of them on their first pass because the 2nd guy in line will kill shoot himself on the flaming ball of debris that the first guy turned into when he tried to HO the Hurri. The third guy will probably get you because the Hurri will have lost enough parts to be uncontrollable.

2. Reup the Hurri.  The 3rd guy will kill you twice with 90 degree deflection shots, but then decide that is too hard and line up for a face shot. I have no idea why they don't shoot into the rear of the hangar. So anyway once you've HOed the 3rd guy, and landed your slightly damaged Hurri, get a new one and take off from the runway. Make sure you take off from a runway near the FH you've spawned from, because the other 3 timid CAPpers will have decided by now that the field ack is down and will whistle down to strafe you as you leave the FH. The first two guys will auger (THE THROTTLE GOES BOTH WAYS) and the third guy in the FW190D will try a high speed turn to try and get you, and end up in a high speed stall and cosequently experience "190D Wing Drop". Now you have 6 kills for 4 deaths. Pretty good ratio for me.

3. Now you're up, go looking for the 2 flights of B17 formations that will be coming in low to the base, because the lazy buggers haven't bothered to learn how to bomb properly. Approach the formation from the 1 O'Clock or 11 O'Clock positions. This will confuse the gunners as you will appear to be making a curving oblique approach. Give it plenty of lead, and let fly with all 4 cannon. You will hit every bomber in formation, and if lucky do mortal damage to two of them. Find the second formation and try to ping up the lead bomber with your remaining ammo. Make sure you left him kill you. If you do it right your kill ratio will be 9 for 5. Still better than 1 for 1.

4. Reup another Hurri. The next wave of fighters will be getting close so stay alert. Look for the tell tale smoke trails from bombers you mangled earlier. Finish them off then kill the goon that is about 2 miles from the town. Another 3 kills though if youare unlucky the 2nd bomber formation may damage you. Unlikely as they will probably be concentratining on their "bomb run" from 120 ft. If you do miss stay close and at about 500ft so you can get the proxy when they blow themselves up from dropping too low, or dropping on their goon.

5. By now the 6 ex-CAPpers will be back in the following mix of aircraft. 1 P51, 2 Nikis, 2 Spit IXs and 1 La7. The 51 will pork fuel and fly back up to, Oh, 20 or 30k. Like you care. You're on 25% fuel and expect to die every couple of minutes, remember? The La7 will make a high speed pass and fly to the next base before re-engaging. Ignore him. The Spit IXs will hang back while the Nikis engage. Kill one Niki at merge with a high deflection shot. I don't know why but this always seems to work. The 2nd Niki will ping and damage you most likely. Flop around awkwardly, while dragging him away from the base. Turn a lot so his E goes away. Either crash or let him kill you. Ratio 13 for 6 now.

5. REup. From the hangar as the Spit IXs will be looking for you. One will Auger first pass, while the 2nd will probably get you and then do a steep climbing turn to come back and get you when you reup. 10 for 7. Reup from the runway facing the Spit IX. Kill him when he HOs you. 14 for 7. The Niki will be lumbering back to your base at 250 knots and 50 ft alt. He may be faintly clever and be doing 175 and climbing. Doesn't matter. Either kill him when he engages in a turn fight (why do Niki drivers think they can beat a Hurri in a knife fight??) or pull up directly underneath and perforate his aircraft from the low 12 , high deflection shot position. 15 for 7.

This is usually enough to consider the base successfully defended. However if the La7 and P51 drivers have any balls or are good you will probably die as you land out of fuel, but hey you're ahead on kills and the base is still yours!

Feel free to use this methodology, and I would be intrigued to see if it works as well for others, as it does for me.

[kj714]

Oh, it's kinda fun for the first couple of kills, but then it gets boring. I never vulched until recently, but started doing it some when I discovered there actually is a bit of skill involved. I'm still not very good at it either. I tend to wound the plane on the runway and the next guy gets the kill on it.

Vulching is just a normal part of capping, you can't get a goon in if you've got nme flying around to kill your c47 or troops. It's also sorta like the HO, it takes two to make it happen.

[SunKing]

True, vulching is part of the MA. The only thing really pathetic about vulching is when a p51 blasts by countless co-alt, advantage encounters, blowing by em all just to die augring trying to vulch someone taking off.

I wonder why those players are even in the game.

[kj714]

Well sorta, but if you're really trying to take a base in a group, some of the guys have to blow by the outer defenses to take the fight directly to the base and start softening it up and get a cap started. Forget that "hey lets get a furball started 3 miles outside of the base and spend two hours fighting our way in". Plus if you have your lead guys run right by, some pilots will always turn and chase them, presenting a nice 6 for the following dogpack to pounce on.

[Reschke]

Vulching isn't any fun unless you are going in on a base that hasn't been hit at all on the Okinawa map. With three times the AAA locations shooting at you just jink a little and have fun. Two Me-163's and two Nikis and two Zekes last night in the CT the AAA finally had nailed me enough to cause the oil leak to happen.

Just remember high speed and tiny jinks around the sky can keep you alive. If you bore straight in you will explode nicely when you hit the ground after loosing both wings.

[beet1e]

Palef - an interesting combination of fatalism, humour, and a tongue in cheek analysis of the state of gameplay in the MA.

Thanks, mate - that was a very good read. :cool:

[simshell]

the object of this game is to ruin others fun while having fun right?



if you want both partys to have fun go fly in the DA


most of the time the enemy that dies from your bullets well not be happy that happen


but you well be

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by humble

I could care less about the vulching....it's the gangbanging candyprettythang mentality I hate...

 
Could you please elaborate "Gangbanging"?