Remorse for virtual death?

[SunKing]

"You should get no perkies for the sortie if you dont return home"

I would like to see this tried in the MA

[Am0n]

Originally posted by Kieran:

1. Prevent people from disregarding death in order to get to action quicker?
2. Penalize people who die by not giving them any points?
3. In any way reduce the low-level action currently dominating the arena?

1.no
2.yes, not a bad idea if i say so my self
3.no.. although i wont say its "dominating the arena", there actualy are fights above 10k.

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Why would you take away furballing though? Kinda silly i would say, one thing it would eliminate is people trying extremely risky actions. Like i stated before so many kills in the MA are related to out landish E killing fights that end up in both participants dead. If death was important, neither would want that kind of fight, friend or foe.

This would leave the elite pilots in the furballs, which is want you may be concerned with overall, you can still fight there.  


Do you really feal that you, or the 25 or so frequenting BBS folks speak for the majority of AH'rs? in your honest opinion?  

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Apache<S>

you pretty much proved what im trying to say here.
 

Originally posted by Apache:
I am in agreement with Kieran on your solution. It is exclusionary. It punishes those that maybe, just maybe, can't survive a sortie in the first place. Going in the other direction might give an incentive but if they chose not to, no harm done.

They dont survive there sorties because they go around HO everyone (which i have no personal problem with), and proforming the above stated outlandish tactics that get people killed(both parties).. If you play with fire, you are going to get burned. But they dont get burned, they get replaned, better rank, and a few perkies out of the deal.. Sounds like it promotes death to me.    

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]

[Kieran]

AmOn, you're just going to have to define as precisely as possible the type of play you feel is appropriate. Maybe I'm not smart, but it keeps sounding like you are saying you want the elite to furball, leaving the neophyte...?

I am not the voice of AH, but I do have some common sense. You cannot cut out the new guy. You cannot grow as a business that way. And the arena numbers are going up steadily, I might add, so something must be going the right direction.

You think I am against rewards for living; far from it. I am against penalties for dying, because the person who gets hit hardest won't be me or you, it will be the new guy. If you would give me one way to support living over dying that does not take something away I would be all for it.

You see, you keep saying you don't want to change the way people play in one sentence, and then later go on to say you don't want people doing insane things with their planes- hence your proposed system. It's contradictory, certainly you can see that?

 

Like i stated before so many kills in the MA are related to out landish E killing fights that end up in both participants dead. If death was important, neither would want that kind of fight, friend or foe.

Again, do you want to stop this or not? If the answer is "yes", then you are trying to dictate gameplay that others do find fun (I do). If the answer is "no", how does the current setup affect you in any way?

[Apache]

They dont survive there sorties because they go around HO everyone (which i have no personal problem with), and proforming the above stated outlandish tactics that get people killed(both parties).. If you play with fire, you are going to get burned. But they dont get burned, they get replaned, better rank, and a few perkies out of the deal.. Sounds like it promotes death to me.

No, no, no, you misunderstand. The rank didn't come by kills alone. It's much like the current scoring here. You wouldn't get a higher rank if you died all the time. Just wanted to clarify that.

<S>

[Seeker]

Here's an idea:

Every one starts as "new userxxx". You have to make living ace to pick your own name (5 kills, no deaths).

Then couple your handle to your life. Die, and lose your name. Back to new user.

(I think it's a sucky idea, but you asked...)

[majic]

Frankly out of all this, the best idea I heard was the implementation  of a kill streak counter.  It would give some motivation not to die, and I can't see anyone not wanting it.

[Tumor]

Money....thats the ONLY thing that would keep people interested in staying alive.  Say, top 10 pilots (or whatever amount would be appropriate after studying the top 10 list over a year or so) get a free account for one month, not to be repeated 2 months consecutively.  Something like that (keep the same 10 jokers from playing free forever too) would get people interested in staying alive and not playing quake.  Leaves the arena open for quake play too, but would generate at least SOME interest in playing a tactica/strategic MA.

Tumor

[mrsid2]

What I'm wondering is why you're not flying by your own principles am0n, if you like that so much.

I checked your k/d stats and you've died 81 times out of 125 sorties..

Try it out, fly safely and smart - you'll see that it's possible to an extent at least.

It can become boring tho.. You need a LOT of patience and SA to maintain high streaks. Most people just can't bother themselves with things like that since it's only a game.

People who are in this for fun - not ambition - play, furball and die. Ambitious players want to show off and compete (and get furious when shot down lol   ) and might play in the most boring way. F.E. dive from 15k down to ack in 1:1 jug vs pony encounter and spin around ack untill t&b planes up to assist.. Seen it, been there, not done that - didn't like it.

[BlauK]

Very nice thought Am0n,

I think like you and can have a very enjoyable fight which ends in me and my enemy both flying home. On the other hand I never enjoy an instant HO which end in both of us getting a kill and losing our planes.

It just seems that the majority (at least on the bbs) belongs to the death-match-furball crowd.

It just makes it more challenging for us to try killing these kamikaze guys  

One solution might be to have almost all planes perked... just 1 or 2 or 3 points each. If one runs out of credits (perks) then only limited equipment is available.

[lazs1]

amon...let me see if I got this right... You have earned your K/D but mine is inflated and needs to be adjusted???   Or, I am playing the game wrong and need to be forced to play your way?

You are a pompous moron.  If you want to be given medals that's fine with me tho but... as toad says, most "fly to live" ideas just make for a very boring arena.
lazs

[Kieran]

Blauk, quite frankly that is the worst possible solution- unless you are trying to lower arena population. Again, a very negative-consequences approach.

Let's take a stab at a positive-consequence approach. In "Flying Circus" pilots who went on a streak could acquire symbols next to their icons, representing levels of accomplishment. If you died, you lost the icon, the recounter was reset, and you started building again. See the beauty of it? If you don't care about the counter, you lose nothing. If you do, you have an incentive to live. No one hurt. No one forced to play anyone's game. Peace and harmony and stuff like that.

[Am0n]

Originally posted by Kieran:
Again, do you want to stop this or not? If the answer is "yes", then you are trying to dictate gameplay that others do find fun (I do). If the answer is "no", how does the current setup affect you in any way?

Yes i understand it sounds contridictory, it very much so does. But you think it would keep people from trying things like i stated?

I think it would stop the majority, but not everyone. Some pilots can fly like that and still survive, as a matter of fact no ones k:d ratio is going to be effected at all IMO, its not like its going to make anyone a worse pilot. theres plenty of people who could proform these maneuevers and live to kill the 3 people who bounced them. But the ones who cannot survive do not deserve the glory of taking the kills home once they are dead.

Maybe a light perking on all planes but the early war ones would be a good answer to this, if you ever noticed most dont go around in there perk rides flying like idiots.
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BlauK

Your very correct, ive had some great fights that ended in both planes flying off. Those types of fights get the blood pumping.

I dont think that the majority of the BBS folks speak for the majority of AH, death match is not what most people want. Most play AH because the other flight sims are very poor at best. Thats just my opinion though, some would think argue that im sure.

If the majority of folks wanted furballing you would see huge 200 participant furballs every night, thats not the case. Although i have seen some very nice furballs, humongous ones, they were a blast.

I think a lot of you are assuming i dont like to furball, or push my planes envelope and do outlandish things. that is not the case, i do nearly in every fight, i game the game just like most people do.

[FlyingDuckSittingSwan]

You know, what Kieran said is an excellent idea. I think.  

[Kieran]

I don't disagree it could change the way people play. The question I have is why should you change it, especially if there is no apparent demand to do so?

I don't speak for the entire community, only myself. I say I wouldn't want anyone to tell me how I have to play, especially since I like to play in every possible way from time-to-time, and can under the current system. Your plan would remove an option I enjoy, wouldn't it?

The part of me that speaks for the newbies comes from a trainer perspective. When I was a trainer I found it incredibly difficult at times to bring a new flyer into the nuances of the gameplay. It is a steep curve, and this proposal makes it more so. I am not making an uninformed guess, I am telling you what I have experienced.

Most people appear to start play by just mixing it up. After a while they branch out into other types of play, but you have to "hook" them before you can expect them to move on to different types of play. Frame your suggestion in the form of an incentive that rewards rather than punishes and you have the best of all worlds. As it stands it removes a gameplay option that is a very big hook to the newbie.

[Eagler]

have HTC reward good flyin, not punish bad.

award a free month of Ah for each pilot/plane who has the best kill/death/sortie ratio. Do this every quarter or tour if they are feeling generous   and have it for each plane type.
Only one win per pilot, with 2nd taking it if same pilot is 1st in more than one plane type.

maybe do this in CA as a way of bringing ppl into that room

I just love spending other ppl's money