What race are the French?

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by MJHerman
So as a Canadian, growing up in Montreal, with a background both in Military History and military service in a Quebec based regiment, I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about....but you and Habu do?

My choice "in what information I choose to believe"?  You must be right...my life experiences and education have all been a sham....if only I had had the benefit of the Internet all these years then I could have seen the errors of my ways and delegated by understanding of what is and what is not true and correct in Canadian history to foreigners.

Gee, thanks for clearing all of that up.

This is too funny. So in other words, we are to take the word of a Franco-Canadian who served in a Franco-Canadian regiment that the Franco Canadians were indeed not a buch of draft-dodging weenies who did everything in their power to escape having to go to war?  

Im sorry if you dont strike me as the pillar of unbiased truth in this subject.

[Habu]

Sorry am I supposed to be impressed with you resume? Your knowlage of the issue of French Canadian participation in both wars is lacking. Conscription was the result of the fact that they did not enlist. Nothing you can cry can change that.

Hey I was accepted into RMC in the 80's. Does that make me a more credible source?

[straffo]

Credible source when you have backed none of your assertions ?

Certainly not.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Hortlund
This is too funny. So in other words, we are to take the word of a Franco-Canadian who served in a Franco-Canadian regiment that the Franco Canadians were indeed not a buch of draft-dodging weenies who did everything in their power to escape having to go to war?  

Im sorry if you dont strike me as the pillar of unbiased truth in this subject.

hahem ... isn't unbiased truth a kind of Chimera ?

[Hortlund]

hrm...good point straffo

[Hortlund]

But there are degrees of being biased...ce ne pas?

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Hortlund
ce ne pas?

Just out of curiosity straffo...what exactly did I just say here?

[straffo]

LOL

You said nothing as the proper "gallicisme" is : n'est-ce pas

But if you had writen :

"But there are degrees of being biased ... n'est ce pas?" I would have translated roughtly to :  "But there are degrees of being biased ... isn't it ?"
Because it's one of the only occurence where it can be transtlated directly in English

It's typicaly French to have a negative sentence used in a interogative context... (we're not simple ...)

Exemple :
Ne joue-t-il pas au football avec ses amis ?

Translation : Does he play football with is friend ?
Litteral translation : Doesn't he play football with is friend ?
(it sound and it is weird )

[cpxxx]

Originally posted by Habu
Conscription was the result of the fact that they did not enlist. Nothing you can cry can change that.

So conscription was as a result of people failing to enlist? Presumably that's why they introduced it to Britain, Australia, New Zealand and of course  the good old USA.  Be careful where you fling the dirt you never know where it might stick. Just for balance did you know there were Australians who enlisted during WW2 strictly for home service.  No one is suggesting Australians are cowards.  Yet some of you are prepared to tar the entire French Canadian population as cowards.

So many armchair warriors.

[Habu]

Originally posted by cpxxx
So conscription was as a result of people failing to enlist? Presumably that's why they introduced it to Britain, Australia, New Zealand and of course  the good old USA.  Be careful where you fling the dirt you never know where it might stick. Just for balance did you know there were Australians who enlisted during WW2 strictly for home service.  No one is suggesting Australians are cowards.  Yet some of you are prepared to tar the entire French Canadian population as cowards.

So many armchair warriors.

You know nothing about the issue. I am trying to be polite but really are you all so stupid that you cannot do a google search before jumping in and defending the French Canadians when there is just a ton of literature on the topic that all says the same thing?

Conscription in Canada was all about getting French Canadians to join the army. Canada was very patriotic and managed to field armys way out of proportion to its small size in both wars. The need for manpower was huge as attrition kicked in. Canada lost over 60,000 soldiers (killed) in WW1 out of a population of not even 3 million. When the need to fill the ranks came and there were few military aged English recruits left the issue of getting French Canadian to join started. There was no need to conscript English Canadians in either war, they joined in droves and did so through out the war. Just like an uncle of mine who died in the tail gun of a Halifax.

[Habu]

Originally posted by MJHerman
Sorry Habu, but no one is buying it.  You use the conscription crisis to slander an entire segment of the Canadian population, and when we keep posting evidence to the contrary you keep regurgitating the same bile.

Again, no one is denying that the conscription crisis occurred, but it was a political crisis that had nothing to do with the bravery of the French Canadian population.  If you knew anything about Canadian history you would understand that, and I for one am not about to provide to educate you as to reasons for a large number of things that have happened in Canada, particularly where those reasons date back to 1759.

As an English Canadian I take great offence to suggestions about the honour and valour of the Canadian military, particularly when statements concerning the bravery or lack thereof of French Canadian soldiers are thrown around by someone as ill informed and thick headed as you seem to be.  If you paint any member of the Canadian military with a comment to the effect that he or she is a coward, you paint us all.

Frankly, I would love to see you take a trip up to Val Cartier, Quebec, stand in the enlisted ranks mess, stare right at the Regimental Colours and spew your garbage to the people who happen to be in attendance.

You know what makes me mad? People who do not know what they are talking about who taint the proud military memories of the many English Canadian recruits who fought the Italians reinforced by the best German divisions from the foot of Italy right on up to the top before D-Day even happened, without the help of the French in Canada. These men died because they were not in the numbers they could have been if the French had enlisted.

Yes your proud province mates let English Canada bear the brunt. How dare you try to step in now and claim credit.

[cpxxx]

Habu
Don't call me stupid, you are in no position to call anyone stupid.

If you care to take a break from the usual mindless French bashing that people are so good at. You might want to do a bit of research into conscription and the need for it most countries during the war.

You need conscription because many men quite simply do not want to die in any war. Even when they volunteer many simply opt for a role away from the frontline. That's a fact. Further as a general rule only the least intelligent and poorly educated soldiers tended to end up in fighting units. Just like in Vietnam. This was acknowledged by the US army in WW2 who had to make a point of beefing up the IQ of combat units by remustering Army Air Force recruits as riflemen.  That was true of most countries. The intelligent guys got the specialist jobs and the dumbs ones got killed.  Most men wanted to avoid combat not least because the huge casualty rates of frontline troops.

Naturally you are also ignoring the reality of the complicated relationship French Canadians have with the Canadian government. That is the real background to the issue.  Not their supposed cowardice. The fighting record of those who did enlist gives lie to that.

But of course this has nothing to do with anything as this in fact is simply another French bashing thread by the kind of armchair warriors and REMF's (look it up) indulging in their mindless pastime.

[SLO]

Habu you are serious in your interpretation....

well at least we didn't sell out to the Germans....

[MJHerman]

Originally posted by Habu
You know what makes me mad? People who do not know what they are talking about who taint the proud military memories of the many English Canadian recruits who fought the Italians reinforced by the best German divisions from the foot of Italy right on up to the top before D-Day even happened, without the help of the French in Canada. These men died because they were not in the numbers they could have been if the French had enlisted.

Yes your proud province mates let English Canada bear the brunt. How dare you try to step in now and claim credit.

You may want to double check that reference to only English Canadians dying in Italy.

But, again, don't let facts get in your way.  Here, I'll help you out:

"Along "the Gully," a long ravine that lay to the south of Ortona, the Canadians encountered seasoned German veterans who were entrenched along the depression. Several days of ferocious fighting ensued before the Germans finally withdrew. On 13 December, the Canadians, led by the Seaforth Highlanders and the West Nova Scotia Regiment, eventually breached the German lines. In another battle, on 14 December, the farm village of Casa Berardi fell, but only after a fierce struggle. The attacking Van Doos (the Royal 22nd Regiment) and the Royal Canadian Regiment suffered heavy casualties in the desperate fighting."

Geez, there's them damn Van Doos again........

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Hortlund
we are to take the word of a Franco-Canadian

Keeping digging that hole.  He's not a Franco-Canadian, what's more he even said so just a few posts up.

LMAO!