Author Topic: How the heck do ya do it?  (Read 4075 times)

Offline kj714

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How the heck do ya do it?
« on: February 16, 2004, 12:13:22 PM »
I must hang out in the wrong places! I was looking at the player stats and I just can't figure out how to get it to the next level. For example, the number 1 ranked player today (SHawk) has managed to kill 61 B17's & B26's this tour in his D109,  I don't even think I've seen that many in total.

to all those great players out there, I think I've gotten about as good as I'm gonna get. I know score doesn't really matter, but it is an indicator of sorts of skill. I'm pretty stoked if I land 3 or 4 legitimate kills out of a furball (not counting vulch kills), but my usual M.O. is to become a fiery meteor at some point. My lame 1.12 k/d says it all I guess. Heck the only reason I'm at 1.12 is because I learned how to vulch a bit. But no matter what, I'm not giving up till I get Ack - Ack at least one time.:D

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2004, 12:18:27 PM »
If you have a job, wife, family or G/f don't even try to compete you won't be able to get the hours in - be satisfied if you make the top 250 in a single stat or be even happier and don't bother checking stats at all.

mmm 60 odd kills of B17's definite pasty skin award nominee by the sound of it - I got 50 odd kills in a G10 so far this tour 9 B17's and 10 B26's

Offline Zazen13

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2004, 12:39:35 PM »
The single biggest factor that determines the type of success you are reffering to is Discipline and Awareness. You must cultivate a profound sense of when to engage, when to disengage, when to stay and angles fight and when to set a hard deck for yourself. I was like yourself for years, just mixing it up with the first bunch of cons that presented themselves, but that became run-on. I wanted to be a superior tactician. To do this you must have rules of engagement for yourself that suit the aircraft you are flying, you must adhere to them, and you must not get greedy.


I probably carry this style to the extreme. I am a perfectionist and am in no hurry, being blessed with extraordinary patience. I'd rather make damn sure I land my 3 or 4 kills than possibly die trying to get 7 or 8. But, check the scores of Steve, Coors and Hispd as examples. They all share one thing in common besides good aim, they have incredible Situational and Tactical Awareness. It takes a special kind of talent to look at a sky containing as many as several dozen aircraft then instantaneously judge the relative E states of all the enemy and friendly aircraft, ascertain the greatest threat(s), select a target, manuever for an attack and even switch targets mid-attack when necessary. All the while maintaining awareness of what the other 10 to 20+ planes in the 6k visual range are doing. Doing all of this while continuously concentrating on maintaining as much energy and positional advantage as possible is just mind boggling. It is a tribute to the complexity of the human mind that certain individuals are even capable of computing all of this information in a mere fraction of a second.

After learning the fundamental principles of ACM and Gunnery (always master these first), it is time to master Situational & Tactical Awareness if you want your game to progress to the next level, it will require a vast amount of time, discipline and dedication to learn and perfect, but is well worth the effort. You will also notice this is the first skill to go down the tubes if you take some time off from flying. SA requires alot of practice to hone to a fine point, but makes all the difference in terms of killing without dying. Many,many people in AH can kill proficiently with just skill in ACM and Gunnery, very few can do so without giving up their own pelt at some point during the average fighter sortie, they lack good SA. The truly successfull WW2 pilots were all endowed with superior Situational Awareness, those who lacked it, died. Historical commentary from veteran WW2 fighter pilots enunciate this point with authority.

Zazen
« Last Edit: February 16, 2004, 02:26:52 PM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Tarmac

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Re: How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2004, 12:46:07 PM »
I hit a "ceiling" in terms of play around that same point - when I'd struggle to get above 2.0 k/d.  I don't know how long you've been playing, or if you already fly with a squad, but join one.  Not a pork and auger base capture squad, a real squad whose goal is to find fights and kill planes, not buildings.  You want to be a better fighter pilot -- practice fighting.

The squad, by providing wingmen and experienced pilots to give you an idea of when and where to engage, can help you out a ton.  The first thing I learned when I joined a good squad was how to pick your fights - both where to take off, and under what conditions to engage.  I'd also recommend a squad with players that fly planes similar to your plane choice - engagement criteria are very different for different planes.  If you fly F4U's, you probably won't learn much about when to engage from a squad of N1k pilots.  

The other things to do are practice fighting.  Go to the DA with experienced pilots.  When they kill you, ask what you should have done differently.  In the MA, look for dogfights, not base porking pigpiles.  You can learn in furballs, but the 1v1, 2v2, 3v2, etc, fights are where you'll learn the most.  

Good luck :)

Offline Steve

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2004, 01:37:42 PM »
Kj, what do you want to improve on?  
If you want to get better in furballs/ACM, go to the DA. There are lots of people that will go there with you and not just fight you, but give you really valuable pointers.  Don't be shy, ask some of the real sharp ACM guys to go, many of them are glad to help.  Ride along in their plane during a deul. I've done this w/ Wldthing and picked up some very important stuff in just 2 or 3 flights.
Take Lev, Shane, Wldthing,.. any of those guys and they will help you out.  Yucca loves to go to the DA, he is on at night often, I bet he'd help ya.

If you want to improve your K/D, and you have your ACM down, work on your overall SA.  SA is pretty much an intagible but Zazen does a good job of laying it out. Ride along w/ some guys in the MA that do well there.
  You're  right KJ, score isn't important.  Having fun?  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  :)
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Offline MotorOil

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2004, 02:12:42 PM »
I agree with everything said so far.  Just to add one word, tactics.  Pick your battles and use tactics that suite the situation and the plane you fly.  A wingman is also handy.  If you can combine tactics with a wingman or a squad you'll be invincable, until the first Osti apears on the other side of the hill! ;)

Offline WldThing

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2004, 02:14:09 PM »
Aye, all good pointers..

Gonna be on later tonight Stevio?  Around 10 pm est?

Offline Steve

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2004, 02:22:03 PM »
Ya Wt, I think so.  What's up?
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Offline kj714

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2004, 02:25:02 PM »
My biggest weakness that I'm working currently on is that theory of an exit strategy, I'm getting better at that. In the past I'd just fight down to the deck and then get pounded. I finally am beginning to learn after many,many fights that it's okay to let one go sometimes and retain your advantage, another's gonna come along pretty quick. It's always that one last tempting kill that does me in.  Whats that old bull story? Don't run down the hill to bag one of them, walk down the hill and bag em all? #2 prob is most likely that I take too much time in trying to get too good of a shot, should probably not be so picky.

As far as pasty skin, early on I was smart enough to hook my girlfriend into it, Duchess gets a few kills every now and then. Overall, my AH pays for itself , instead of taking her out on the weekends, I usually get her to play at least one night, sometimes get the whole weekend in.:aok

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2004, 02:39:48 PM »
It takes awhile to learn the basics - I learnt mine um 2 sims back about 4 years ago - as everyone said it's about SA, Gunnery and a little bit of ACM - learn to fight when you have all the advantages and learn to set up your opponent so that it just so happens you have all the advantages.

Forget about the chest beaters who think it's a 1 vs 1 duel - it's a team game.

Offline MotorOil

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2004, 02:44:41 PM »
Exactly, that one tempting kill is myself leading you into the guns of my trusty wingman.  Discipline is the key, always plan your attack with an escape.

As for tactics it sounds like I need some lessons fom you!  The latest kill my wife has in AH is by augering my 152!  And I generally still have to pay after that! :lol

Offline Zazen13

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2004, 02:48:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kj714
My biggest weakness that I'm working currently on is that theory of an exit strategy, I'm getting better at that. In the past I'd just fight down to the deck and then get pounded. I finally am beginning to learn after many,many fights that it's okay to let one go sometimes and retain your advantage, another's gonna come along pretty quick. It's always that one last tempting kill that does me in.  Whats that old bull story? Don't run down the hill to bag one of them, walk down the hill and bag em all? #2 prob is most likely that I take too much time in trying to get too good of a shot, should probably not be so picky.

As far as pasty skin, early on I was smart enough to hook my girlfriend into it, Duchess gets a few kills every now and then. Overall, my AH pays for itself , instead of taking her out on the weekends, I usually get her to play at least one night, sometimes get the whole weekend in.:aok


A good exit and general survival strategy involves the following:

1) Before ever engaging know what direction you need to go if you get in trouble (egress path), make note of geographic features in that direction so you don't have to look at the clipboard.

2) Set a hard deck for yourself that suits the situation, the plane you are in, and the average reported altitude of the enemy in your area. If you get below that altitude and you aren't heading along your egress path, disengage and regain altitide in the direction of your egress path to something above your hard deck.

3) Every plane has a G spot, an area of excellence within which it out-performs most other planes in at least one key area, realize when an enemy is deliberately trying to pull you out of yours and refuse to let him. Similiarly, endeavor to pull the enemy out of his, and be sneaky about it,  be the seducer not the seduced.

4) Try to have a vague or general awareness of what each red dot is in your area, even those beyond visual range, as well as its altitude and vector, do your own pre-fight recon. It is one of these cons that will be diving on your six shortly after you've engaged.

5) Use your altitude to maximum advantage, don't blow it. I have seen many times one higher con over a base with 10+ enemy, that one con with altitude can for 30 minutes or more prevent any of those 10 from getting above 10k. On the flip side, I've seen many 25k+ cons dive on a lower enemy only to end up on deck and dead in under 30 seconds. Getting altitide and knowing how best to use it are two different things. If being a successfull alt-monkey was just a matter of getting altitude everyone in the arena with 15 minutes to spare and the desire would be a successfull alt-monkey, obviously this is not the case. Patience and discipline are the key.

6) Don't get married to one target. Target fixation is a sin, and is often punished by death. Be flexible, take targets of opportunity, break off one after forcing him to blow his alt in an evasive spiral dive then wack his buddy nearby. Diving from 15k to deck after one spiral diving enemy is a complete waste of your time and effort in most cases and will usually just get you gangbanged.

7) Unless you have the luxury of a designated wingman or are flying with your squadron never get yourself into anything you cannot get yourself out of. Never assume you are going to get any help. I fly alone 99% of the time, as a result I never rely on my teamates to help me or even do the most logical thing in any given situation. If they do, it's an added bonus, but never expect it and certainly do not plan your attack strategy around it.

On the topic of waiting for the perfect shot, I am not sure whether perfect means low deflection or close range to you. I intentionaly choose planes with great nose low deflection views. Some planes have horrid nose low deflection views, with these planes (most LW planes for example) you are almost forced to take either blind' or very low deflection shots because of the engine cowling visual obstruction's proximity to the gunsight/bullet stream. On the other hand in a plane with a great nose low view (ie: Hurricane's, Fm2, F6f, P38, P51, Typhoon) you can maintain sight of the enemy even at very high degrees of nose low deflection. In these cases just hold fire until you are close, by close I mean close enough so that a 1 to 2 second burst will almost certainly be fatal (usually 300-400).

Zazen
« Last Edit: February 17, 2004, 12:19:26 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
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Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline Ack-Ack

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2004, 03:13:55 PM »
Kj714,

Take the time to go to NetAces and read Rocketman's lectures on the merge as well as Bullethead's lectures on E management and SA.  These are probably some of the best lectures written for the arm chair pilot.

If you can, try to locate a copy of John Boyd's "Aerial Attack Study" and his thesis, "Energy-Maneuverability Theory".  Both completely changed aerial combat.  You'll probably have to get them through the Freedom of Information Act through Maxwell's Air Force Base's "Air" University library.

And as Steve said, ask some of the better pilots in the game for some help.  I'll be more than happy to go with you to the DA and work on some ACM with you.  Shane and Leviathn are also good ones to ask.  And watch films.  Do a search of the AH message boards for any training films and watch them.  Even if the film isn't of a plane you fly, watch it anyway as you still find things to learn by watching it.

And who knows, maybe you will find yourself on the six of a Knight P-38


ack-ack
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Offline Widewing

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2004, 04:00:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kj714
My biggest weakness that I'm working currently on is that theory of an exit strategy, I'm getting better at that.


The best exit strategy I've seen is that demonstrated by Leviathn and Drex....Kill 'em all... And fly home at your leisure. ;)

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline WldThing

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How the heck do ya do it?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2004, 04:41:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
The best exit strategy I've seen is that demonstrated by Leviathn and Drex....Kill 'em all... And fly home at your leisure. ;)

My regards,

Widewing


Too bad theirs numerous obstacles before getting to that point..  One step at a time and you will reach.  

FYI i went thru that phase THREE or FOUR times "Reaching what i think is the top for me"  But each time i pass by it,  just by trying new things..   But it will come sooner or later..