Author Topic: canadian professors gun study...large cut/paste..  (Read 5545 times)

Offline lazs2

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canadian professors gun study...large cut/paste..
« on: February 19, 2004, 11:23:01 AM »
The Fraser Institute 3 The Failed Experiment
Executive Summary
Widely televised firearm murders in many countries dur-
ing the 20 th Century have spurred politicians to intro-
duce restrictive gun laws.The politicians then promise
that the new restrictions will reduce criminal violence
and “create a safer society.”It is time to pause and ask if
gun laws actually do reduce criminal violence.
Gun laws must be demonstrated to cut violent crime
or gun control is no more than a hollow promise.What
makes gun control so compelling for many is the belief
that violent crime is driven by the availability of guns
and,more importantly,that criminal violence in general
may be reduced by limiting access to firearms.
In this study,I examine crime trends in Common-
wealth countries that have recently introduced firearm
regulations:i.e.,Great Britain,Australia,and Canada.
The widely ignored key to evaluating firearm regulations
is to examine trends in total violent crime,not just fire-
arms crime.Since firearms are only a small fraction of
criminal violence,the public would not be safer if the
new law could reduce firearm violence but had no effect
on total criminal violence.
The United States provides a valuable point of com-
parison for assessing crime rates because the criminal
justice system there differs so drastically from those in
Europe and the Commonwealth.Not only are criminal
penalties typically more severe in the United States,often
much more severe,but also conviction and incarceration
rates are usually much higher.Perhaps the most striking
difference is that qualified citizens in the United States
can carry concealed handguns for self-defence.During
the past few decades,more than 25 states in the United
States passed laws allowing responsible citizens to carry
concealed handguns.In 2003,there are 35 states where
citizens can get such a permit.
The upshot is that violent crime rates,and homicide
rates in particular,have been falling in the United States.
The drop in the American crime rate is even more im-
pressive when compared with the rest of the world.In 18
of the 25 countries surveyed by the British Home Office,
violent crime increased during the 1990s.This contrast
should provoke thinking people to wonder what hap-
pened in those countries where they introduced increas-
ingly restrictive firearm laws.
Britain
In the past 20 years,both Conservative and Labour gov-
ernments have introduced restrictive firearm laws;even
banning all handguns in 1997.Unfortunately,these
Draconian firearm regulations have totally failed.The
public is not any safer and may be less safe.Police sta-
tistics show that England and Wales are enduring a seri-
ous crime wave.In contrast to handgun-dense United
States,where the homicide rate has been falling for over
20 years,the homicide rate in handgun-banning England
and Wales has been growing.In the 1990s alone,the
homicide rate jumped 50%,going from 10 per million in
1990 to 15 per million in 2000.
Police statistics show that violent crime in general
has increased since the late 1980s and,in fact,since
1996 has been more serious than in the United States.
The firearm laws may even have increased criminal vio-
lence by disarming the general public.Despite Britain ’s
banning and confiscating all handguns,violent crime,
and firearm crime,continue to grow.
Australia
Following shocking killings in 1996,the Australian gov-
ernment made sweeping changes to the firearm legisla-
tion in 1997.Unfortunately,the recent firearm regula-
tions have not made the streets of Australia any safer.
The total homicide rate,after having remained basically
f lat from 1995 to 2001,has now begun climbing again.
The decline in homicide rate in the gun-permissive Unit-
ed States stands out against the trend in Australia.
The divergence between Australia and the United
States is even more apparent with violent crime.While

PUBLIC POLICY SOURCES,NUMBER 71
The Failed Experiment 4 The Fraser Institute
violent crime is decreasing in the United States,it is in-
creasing in Australia.Over the past six years,the over-
all rate of violent crime in Australia has continued to
increase.Robbery and armed robbery rates continue to
rise.Armed robbery has increased 166%nationwide.
The confiscation and destruction of legally owned fire-
arms cost Australian taxpayers at least $500 million.
The costs of the police services bureaucracy,including
the hugely costly infrastructure of the gun registration
system,has increased by $200 million since 1997.And
for what?There has been no visible impact on violent
crime.It is impossible to justif y such a massive amount of
the taxpayers ’money for no decrease in crime.For that
kind of tax money,the police could have had more pa-
trol cars,shorter shifts,or maybe even better equipment.
Think of how many lives might have been saved.
Canada
In the 1990s,sweeping changes were made to the fire-
arms laws,first in 1991 and then again in 1995.Licensing
and registration are still being phased in.The contrast
between the criminal violence rates in the United States
and in Canada is dramatic.Over the past decade,the
rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in
the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted.
The Canadian experiment with firearm regulation is
moving to farce.The effort to register all firearms,which
was originally claimed to cost only $2 million,has now
been estimated by the Auditor General to top $1 bil-
lion.The final costs are unknown but,if the costs of
enforcement are included,the total could easily reach $3
billion.Taxpayers would do well to ask for independent
cost-benefit studies on registration to see how much the
gun registry is already costing.
Restrictive firearm legislation has failed to reduce vi-
olent crime in Australia,Canada,or Great Britain.The
policy of confiscating guns has been an expensive failure.
Criminal violence has not decreased.Instead,it contin-
ues to increase.Unfortunately,policy dictates that the
current directions will continue and,more importantly,
it will not be examined critically.
Only the United States has witnessed such a dramatic
drop in criminal violence over the past decade.Perhaps it
is time politicians in the Commonwealth reviewed their
traditional antipathy to lawfully owned firearms.
It is an illusion that gun bans protect the public.
No law,no matter how restrictive,can protect us from
people who decide to commit violent crimes.Maybe we
should crack down on criminals rather than hunters and
target shooters?

great website at.... http://www.sfu.ca./~mauser

lazs

Offline Toad

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canadian professors gun study...large cut/paste..
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2004, 11:30:00 AM »
Laz, Laz, Laz, Laz, Laaaaaaaaaaaazz.

OK, I'm staking out the prime spot for the beer and brats concession. No competition within 15 feet of the hibachi and umbrella!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline ra

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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2004, 11:45:00 AM »
"Maybe we should crack down on criminals rather than hunters and target shooters? "

Radical.

Offline Curval

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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2004, 11:49:19 AM »
If only he flew AH and posted on these boards.  Then we could have two lazs'.

:)
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2004, 11:53:48 AM »
also... 1-8-04...  Ohio joined the ranks of right to carry states so U.S. crime will go down even more...

and... the supremes upheld  New Mexicos right to carry law that was under attack by the women of gun control...  This one is worth noting for me because the supporters of right to carry in New mexico were 2 senators and a gov..... All..... believe it or not.... democrats!   a very pleasnat surprise to say the least....

handwriting is on the wall... even the democrats are starting to see that the big lies about guns aren't selling anymore.... people are actually doing the research and catching the liars.

can ending womens suffrage be far behind?   We can only hope.

lazs

Offline Sox62

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canadian professors gun study...large cut/paste..
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2004, 12:32:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
also... 1-8-04...  Ohio joined the ranks of right to carry states so U.S. crime will go down even more...lazs


The anti-gunners here are already gearing up.Toby Hoover's group has stated,"If you see someone with a gun, continue to assume their activity is suspicious. There is no way for you to determine the 'law abiding' from those with criminal intent. Call law enforcement to investigate and leave the area."

What it amounts to is they don't want people to stick around if it turns out to be a false accusation.


Link to the entire article...


http://www.ofcc.net/article1794.html

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2004, 12:40:11 PM »
violent crime will happen with or without guns...what they should be doing is teaching people what do do when a criminal shows up with a gun and how to avoid the situation alltogether

Offline Sabre

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canadian professors gun study...large cut/paste..
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2004, 01:26:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
violent crime will happen with or without guns...what they should be doing is teaching people what do do when a criminal shows up with a gun and how to avoid the situation alltogether


What to do? Pull out your legally acquired and permitted Gloch and take care of it.  There...lesson complete.
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2004, 01:37:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sabre
What to do? Pull out your legally acquired and permitted Gloch and take care of it.  There...lesson complete.


what if you aint armed...or what if hes carrying a much more powerfull gun thats already out? can you pull a gun and shoot before he does...

Offline Curval

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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2004, 01:44:43 PM »
Not sure how much training you could possibly do to help in that situation Vort.

Sabre has the right idea....if you are in the US.

Here...well, very unlikely to happen...just like for you in Canada.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2004, 02:18:51 PM »
vort... in the U.S. we have harsh penalties that need to be better enforced for using a gun in a crime.   Having the citizens have guns makes criminals less likely to commit crimes that involve victims that are present... having harsher penalties while increasing the number of citizens that are armed puts things as they should be...  the criminals are afraid to carry/use a gun because of the extra penalties and they are afraid to attack people because they might get shot..

win/win.

lazs

Offline Vulcan

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canadian professors gun study...large cut/paste..
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2004, 02:29:04 PM »
Laz... this study is flawed from the outset, you can see it in this statement:
Restrictive firearm legislation has failed to reduce vi-
olent crime in Australia,Canada,or Great Britain.

Then followed by this statement:
The upshot is that violent crime rates,and homicide
rates in particular,have been falling in the United States.


This fails to mention the levels at which each countries violent crimes are at. Its just massaging the statistics to say what you want them to say. Its all releative to the crime levels - and you'd have to admit the levels of violent crimes, particularly gun related, are far higher in the USA than these countries.

There are also other factors, Australia for example, has been suffering gangs forming from growing migrant communities (Asian, Middle Eastern in particular) which has seen a substantial leap in violent crimes. Nothing to do with gun laws.

The facts are simple, communities outside the USA do not need to be armed to teeth. The USA is a different case, you're a bunch of nutcases, you've got so many armed 'citizens' now you'd be a fool to step onto the street not packing personal-body-armour, a couple of pistols, and some sort of fully automatic weapon.

Please do not try and arm our 'citizens' to bring our gun crime rate statistics up to make yours look better :)

Offline lazs2

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canadian professors gun study...large cut/paste..
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2004, 02:43:25 PM »
vulcan.... I think you miss the point.   each country has it's own socio economic system and they all differ wildly.   What the study/studies all point out is that....

No matter what the country or what the circustances....THAT COUNTRY does not benifiet and allmost allways get's worse from harsh gun control.   Removing guns from ANY country that is studied seems to make things worse not better... In countries like the U.S. where more people are armed... the more that are armed the less crime there is.

like baldness remedies say.... lets say that some hair growth happened with every case, a variable amount...  because one person had a lot of hair to begin with would that mean the remedy was worthless?

What is it that you don't understand?

lazs

Offline Curval

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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2004, 02:43:42 PM »
Anyone know what the gun laws in South Africa are like?

I ask only because I got an e-mail from a client yesterday.  His nephew, whom he adopted after the kid's father was killed a few years ago, was shot the night before last in a robbery.

At best the boy will be paralysed for life...but the doctors do not think he will survive.
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Offline SmokinSS

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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2004, 03:50:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan


The facts are simple, communities outside the USA do not need to be armed to teeth. The USA is a different case, you're a bunch of nutcases, you've got so many armed 'citizens' now you'd be a fool to step onto the street not packing personal-body-armour, a couple of pistols, and some sort of fully automatic weapon.

Vulcan...I work for a fairly small city in the Southern U.S. as a firefighter. There are places in this city that we do not respond to without a police escort. The reason behind this is because we have been shot at on numerous occassions. Now I don't mean they are just shooting for the fun of it. We have taken fire while in the engine coming into and going out of the communities (if you care to call them that). The engine I ride has 4 patches over bullet holes. When we get out at the scene we are required to wear ballistic vests. Ever tried to wear one of these under the gear we have on? Yes we even have to wear it for fire calls to these communities.

The reason I am posting this is to tell you this. The U.S. is not a bunch of "nutcases". 95% of the people here are quiet and law abiding citizens. The other 5% I have no idea what they are thinking but I have to deal with them everyday I go to work and there are some real winners out there. But I can promise you the people thast put those wholes in our truck are not law abiding nor are they citizens. I can also promise you they did not buy thier weapons legally or for any useful purpose other than to impose thier will onto either a innocent victim or a person of thier same caliber.

I will say this though. in the past 2 years that the P.D. have been responding with us to these places not 1 shot has been fired at us. Why?  Maybe because they now know that it is not just an unarmed firefighter trying to help someone but it is a force that will return fire if neccesary and/or give them a blue light taxi ride to the county motel and possibly shut thier business down for a while.

Sorry so long and thanks for your time.
Robert