Spitfire NACA reports

[VO101_Isegrim]

You see Milo, or should I use your real name, Shaun Innes, I have hard time to understand what is so great devoting your life to post such totally meaningless text. I doubt anyone would pay attention to it, or believe any of your claims regarding me. But I definitely find it entertainig that there is such a fool who spends his day with nothing more than this miserable little show you run all day. Too bad the cost is paid by others who would be interested in an intelligent discussion, which is made impossible by your constant rantings.

[MiloMorai]

The meaningless text was in response to your meaningless text.

They don't have to believe what I say as they can see very clearly for themselves. Example: your sig quote.

If you did not post your obviously biased post on all things German, others would not have to keep correcting your claims for those not so well informed.

Anyway, there has to be truth in what I say for you keep on coming up with these post defending yourself:) and accusing me of bias. A typical ploy by an ambulance chaser.

[VO101_Isegrim]

Do not wish to comment on his nonsense more, it would wreck the thread, which is his goal... but it`s worth to take a look on his post on other forums, he does the same everywhere.. look for the strange similiarity of style of "MandMs"... I wonder where the old "Milo Morai" nick went after 12th February...? The mods there flushed it down the toilet. AH`s mods should do the same here. Then there would be some normal discussion again.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=124101332&p=3

[Virage]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
No, 80mph is about right for the Spit V in Aces High.  I consider 80mph to be sufficient to pull up a bit and bring the wheels up on rollout.  Any speed below that is pushing it.

-- Todd/Leviathn

As I said in my post ... 100%  fuel, no wep.  No problem.

Try it.

I don't know how 48in. manifold equates to AH power settings, maybe our spitv has more juice.  The 80 could also be a result of pilot technique and not a limitation of the aircraft.

[MiloMorai]

Barbi, this thread was going along very nicely until you started with the insults and your anti British bias showed once more.

Moron is not my nick, while your nick is Barbi,  from your original nick, Barbarossa Isegrim.

Oh, and what name did I use when you claimed I cursed you up, down, in and out for getting shot down several times by you. You never did come up with a name. More vile lies from Barbi, but that is normal.


Interesting thread. Also interesting is the Luft boys register within days of you Barbi, and your bud Huckles, getting the boot. I was sad to see Huckie get the boot for I enjoyed our sparing matchs. He definately had much more 'class' than you could ever hope to have.

[GScholz]

MiloMorai will you please STFU. If you want to attack Isegrim, do it in the O'Club. Same goes for you Straffo, Isegrim is biased ... we are all biased one way or another. In his post he emphasized the part that related to Angus' question. He didn't cut out the good parts of the text about the Spit's controls. He did nothing wrong in my book, so stop fediddleing attacking him. It is ruining every thread you guys participate in. Recognize bias when you see it and treat the info with a bit of scepticism, but don't make personal attacks because of it. The same goes for you Isegrim.

[MiloMorai]

I did not attack Barbi, but he sure attacked me, eh Scholz. Better re-read the thread. All I did was post another part of the Ethell report and the next thing Barbi is insulting.

Barbi begins his attacks on any person, when his bias is pointed out.

Now your bias is showing.

Nice to see you included Barbi as an afterthought.

[214thCavalier]

I vote :   GSholz

[Overlag]

both the fighters are GOOD fighters, i like all of them and i couldnt put down one or the other as a failure. Like some people saying the 109 failed simply because there wasnt any left by the end of the war... HELLO the fighter factories and planes was bombed to BITS........

.....anyway  VO101_Isegrim have you ever thought that the german that tested the spit might have had a different oct fuel? making the fighter less powerful? Oh and not to mention he had been trained for one concept of fighting/flying compaired to the spits concept.......quiet down the 109 isnt great, nor is the spit nor is the 51, or the LA7 etc etc......

[Karnak]

MiloMorai,

While I agree with you about Isegrim's level of bias, you are being disingenious when you say your reply with bolded text wasn't an attack on him.  It was.  It was passive, but it was a direct attack on his implied statement.

Wotan is right, we are all biased.  Some of use just fight our bias' better than others, but we are never the ones best able to judge our success in controling our own bias'.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Virage
Try it.

I try it every flight.  And, like I said, I consider 80mph to be the "safe" minimum vertical speed for a Spit V on takeoff.  I would not attempt to maneuver or do anything other than extremely light stick inputs at anything below that.  If I'm rolling from a vulched field and hit 80mph, I know I'm in a far better position than any lower speed.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Guppy35]

Re: Spit Ailerons

From Cheif Test Pilot, Jeffrey Quill's book "Spitfire-A Test Pilot's Story"

Paraphrasing some of this.  He speaks about the problems with the metal ailerons and how they were almost completely stiff in a dive of 470mph.  His experience with the Spit I while flying in the B of B with 65 Squadron only heightened his concerns and what he saw as the need for metal ailerons.

When the first metal ailerons were introduced they let some veteran pilots try them to see their reaction.  "All Pilot's agreed there was a vast improvement in aileron control, the only criticism being that now control was a little too light."

Interestingly, I just happened to come across a quote from a service pilot today talking about the FRXIV.  "The first loop I ever attempted in the aircraft was the most shuddering affair I can ever remember, as you had to 'motor' the machine around on the Griffon engine throughout the manouver.  Conversely it's rate of roll was astounding!"

So I guess it comes down to a pilot's perception of things.  Jeff Ethell was flying Rudy Frasca's full span wing MKXVIII TP280 when he wrote about the Spit.  A much heavier beast then a V or an IX obviously and without the clipped wing the roll rate would have been less.

Quill's book spends a lot of time talking about the longitudinal stability issues too and the introduction of the bob weights to the elevators.  The structural failures that were happening prior to this had to do with incorrectly loaded aircraft that upset the C of G.

AS for getting off the ground in a Spit, I remember Pierre Closterman talking about taking off in his fully loaded Spit IX in front of some P47 pilots, in about 50 yards and slow rolling it on the deck as he pulled the gear up just to show off.

As for stall characteristics.  Whenever I've read stuff by Spit pilots or talked to them, one of the comments made is the Spit always gave a lot of warning before it stalled out.  With the lower wing loading of that big wing, it's not a huge surprise.  It also had a lot of "float" on landing because of that.  But it would shudder and  then gently drop a wing when it stalled.

Bottom line is it was a heckuva fine combat plane, as were many others of it's contemporaries, regardless if you want to like it or not

Dan/Slack

[Urchin]

A 50 yard takeoff?  I'd have to see that to believe it.

[Batz]

Pierre Closterman told more tales then pinocchio.

[Charge]

How could they (in AH) model controls which require 40lbs of side force to full aileron control and at the same time only 3 degrees of stick movement (with minimal force) to bring the aircaft to the verge of stall? How could they model an aircraft which is not even satisfactorily stable in longitudinal axis?

They can't.

Of course the Spit was a great combat aircraft at its time. It also had its weaknesses which were one by one fixed at the time of its existence in service. The problem is that they are not usually modelled in any game making the Spit such an easy ride which wipes the virtual skies where ever if flies.

IMO Isegrim is right about the aileron control. If he is or was biased before it doesn't mean he is wrong now. It just gives you a decent weapon to whack his comments down showing the level of this conversation is not worth participating. Or would you just like to pad each others backs here?

You need a few of us 109 geeks to mess things up a bit.

With valid comments, of course.

Cheers.

PS. Nice links Virage. Thx!

-C+