Spain Popular Party Defeated

[Gixer]

Big news from Spain that Jose Maria Aznar has been defeated because of his support for the US led war on Iraq, which something like 90% of Spaniards apposed.

When al Qaeda was identified to be behind the bombings caused a massive  protest against the government. Al Qaeda  has now succeeded in removing a government in power.

The new government has already vowed to remove their troops from Iraq by June 30th.

I just think that this event is a major event for the so called war on terror. Never before have terrorists succeeded to cause a change in government and subsquent removal of troops from another country and also the removal of a staunch supporter for the US.

If Bush wins the next election he might find himself very alone as Blair is now hugely unpopular (for the same reasons as Jose Maria Aznar) with no chance winning their next election. And Howard in Australia is also unlikely to win another term.



...-Gixer

[ravells]

defeated because of his support for the US led war on Iraq,  

gix, I havn't been following the Spanish election very closely, but have there been exit polls suggesting that the war on Iraq was the reason that he lost the election, or were there domestic issues too?

I'd be interested to hear more about this.

cheers

Ravs

[Replicant]

Originally posted by Gixer

If Bush wins the next election he might find himself very alone as Blair is now hugely unpopular (for the same reasons as Jose Maria Aznar) with no chance winning their next election. And Howard in Australia is also unlikely to win another term.



...-Gixer

Very interesting result in Spain.

As for Blair, well, yes he is indeed very unpopular but there is not another party fit enough to take over yet.  I can't stand Blair and would love to see him out but I doubt that will happen unless the Tories pull their finger out.  Incidently, the Conservatives (Tories) did originally support Blair on the war against Saddam and they are the next 'big' political party.  It's only the Liberal Pary and Green Party that really opposed Blair's stance and in all honesty I can't see either of them taking power away from Blair either.

[ravells]

I'll be voting Green next election. I have lost faith in B-liar completely and Michael Howard is, to me, just an opportunist.

Ravs

[Replicant]

Originally posted by ravells
I'll be voting Green next election. I have lost faith in B-liar completely and Michael Howard is, to me, just an opportunist.

Ravs

I've always voted Independant (local) since they have my local interests at heart rather than trying to suck up to the big parties.

Blair, imo, has totally lost the plot.  He's too concerned with his public image, his ego, never listens to advice and will not let the public vote on such issues as Europe.  The fact that they keep saying how much worse off the country was before 1997 (when they entered power) is simply a diversion away from what they haven't done since then.  That's 7 years of doing very little and having even less to show for it.

Do you think the Green Party would reduce our military forces? (are you down in Camberley?)

[CyranoAH]

While the bombings have clearly had an effect on the voting, there are other aspects:

- First of all, the Popular Party was sure to lose the absolute majority by a good margin. Things like the war in Iraq, the management of the "prestige" spill, and the fact that the popular party didn't want to participate in a televised debate against the other parties played an important role in that.

- But the bombings in Madrid triggered two courses of events that caused the surprise in the election results:

1. The government clearly wanted the citizens to think that the bombing was one of ETA, even when there were leads that pointed to Al Qaeda. Minister Ana de Palacio sent a diplomatic memo to all embassadors asking them to "use every possible chance to make clear it was an attack from ETA and dismiss any rumors stating otherwise" HOURS AFTER they found the koran tapes and other material that clearly showed that the most probable author of the massacre was Al Qaeda.
That caused spontaneous demonstrations in the streets against the government (more than 50.000 in Madrid), feeling they had been purposedly misleaded in order to win votes.

2. The fact that it was Al Qaeda and not ETA brought back the "anti-war" sentiment and, most importantly, made most socialist voters that stayed home in 2000 go vote this time.

That's my analysis, and so take it cautiously, as I may be far off.

Daniel

[ravells]

Cyrano: So, no change there with Politicians putting 'spin' on the events.

Interestingly, my wife's father (now sadly deceased), who worked for Amnesty International, was a key player in getting the ceasefire agreement between ETA and and the Spanish government.  The moment this happened, she just said, 'It's not ETA. ' Looks like (cautiously said as we don't really know yet) she may be right.

Ravs

[ravells]

Replicant: I really wish we had a good independant candidate in Richmond. I'd vote for him/her without question.

I'm going to vote green next year becasue I do think our planet is getting screwed..and more and more scientists are saying this.  To me this is the biggest problem we are facing as a human race which is being overshadowed by the whole terrorist dialogue. It's more of a protest vote than anything, but if more people voted green at least the issue would be put on the agenda.

Ravs

[Nefarious]

Originally posted by Gixer
Al Qaeda  has now succeeded in removing a government in power.
 

So if GWB doesnt win the 2004 election it will be an Al Quada Victory by removing him from office?

[Gixer]

Polls prior to the bombings the Popular Party was expected to win the election.


...-Gixer

[takeda]

Aznar supported the war against 90% opinion polls... but the economy was doing great.
60 soldiers died in a POS ex-soviet plane with a drunk crew and Aznar tried to cover it up...  but the economy was doing great...
Public TV lied to us in our faces every day, even with Court orders forcing them to tell the truth, but man the economy was really doing great.
Housing prices kept going up 20% per year and we all have 30 yr. mortgages and burger-flipper salaries. BUT the economy was REALLY doing great (for land speculators at least).
I could add quite a lot of stuff to this list, but it didn't matter, Popular Party was still going to win, but they decided to feed us one more final LIE, and just yesterday it blew up in their faces. So WE, the people of Spain using our sovereignity, booted a Government that mostly ignored or tried to fool us.

The new govt. will fight terrorism at least as fiercely, but hopefully with a better focus than just following His Master's Voice in every stupid adventure...

And yes... one of the Socialist's pre-election promises was pulling out of Iraq if UN isn't in charge there before June, 30.

[CyranoAH]

Originally posted by Gixer
Polls prior to the bombings the Popular Party was expected to win the election.


...-Gixer

One can only guess what would have happened if they hadn't put a spin in the information regarding the bombings.

Daniel

[Gixer]

Originally posted by Nefarious
So if GWB doesnt win the 2004 election it will be an Al Quada Victory by removing him from office?

No, I was making the point that a significant event  "the bombing in Madrid" casued a massive public backlash against the government removing them from office.



...-Gixer

[CyranoAH]

Originally posted by Gixer
No, I was making the point that a significant event  "the bombing in Madrid" casued a massive public backlash against the government removing them from office.



...-Gixer

Gixer, the bombing in Madrid caused a lot of grief and affliction.

The government lying to us about the bombings caused a massive public backlash. And with good reason.

Daniel

[ravells]

That's really sad

Ravs