Exodus?

[MANDOBLE]

lazs, I cant talk for Santa, but in my case, what I want is a generalized mission system, not a free for all style game, and that doesn't mean flying only for LW neither a HA. Just to feel part of something organized, synchronized and with goals distributed in a discrete time window.
Just an idea, how about enabling score/perks only for mission asigned planes/vehicles, and only once a goal is achieved, then considering the rest as non scoring/perks "free flights"? Perhaps this way more people will be interested into mission edition and into joining active missions.

[LePaul]

Sun,

You hit the nail right on the head.  I'm also a bomber dweeb and enjoy the strat bombing role.  Lately, it just hasn't been a whole lot of fun.  I've been flying less so I can sorta recharge my enthusiasm    I've noticed that the Main Arena has become more of a furballing paradise than anything else.  Note the other threads on this topic of furballing vs Strat stuff.  I've been batting around different sides over the past couple of months and there just seems to be less and less interest in bombing a field, leveling it, removing enemy fighters from it and capturing it.  I flew for the Bishops a few nights ago and in 5 hours, we only took 2 fields.  Nevermind we had 90 players versus the 50 or 60 the other sides had.  I couldn't beleive it.  2 fields away from winning a reset and we couldnt hunker-down and take them.  <shrug>

So, I think the boredom you and I are feeling are the woes of 2 strat bomber dweebs.  At least, that's how I feel.  I don't wanna go off topic on the furball-vs-strategic playing in Main Arena, as that horse has been beat to death already.



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Paul J. Busiere

Aces High Arena handle:  BD5Pilot
 http://bd5.checksix.net
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)

[StSanta]

mandoble and stsanta...I also find it fun that the LW guys turn everything into "we need historical fights or no one will fly our planes including us"

Hey lazs, you got your mouth so close to mine that if I tongue kiss you, I'll wipe your butt.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I've never said anything resembling that.

I was commenting that HISTORICALLY ORIENTED SQUADS PREFER HISTORICALLY CORRECT SIMS.

Let me know if you get confused, I can probably draw pictures if needed.

I really hate people who put words in my mouth. They don't taste well and it's a very impolite thing to do.

They are of course right. If you are so ridgid that you fly only LW planes you will never enjoy a WWII ac simulation.

Hey lazy, now you got your mouth so close to my brain the breath is killing my brain cells.

I enjoy the sim. You're wrong. QED.

the LW planes are not that fun. Fighting them is not much fun. They will do in a
pinch but variety and ACM go right into the toilet. You can sneak up or you can climb/accelerate away and thats about it in the MA.

Heh, they require more thought and patience than t&b'ers. You're probably not a very experienced LW pilot since you haven't discovered that the LW birds can do some astonishing things and the 109 for example is a great knife fighter.



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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[wulfie]

Maverick and Lazs both had points that are dead on (in my experience).

Alot of guys were really into AW or WB for the 'fighting against a person' factor.

After 15,000+ kills over 5 years of playing an online flight sim with a decent FM, some old hands are going to get the attitude that 'a kill is a kill'. It can get to the point where you are having 1 or 2 'good fights' a month while spending lots of hours playing nonetheless.

Some guys get/got into it for the challenge and when the challenge has lessened they move on to something else.

This doesn't mean in any way that AH isn't a really good game/simulation/etc. in my opinion.

Some guys get to the point that they aren't challenged anymore but they got into the simulation more for their love of WW2 aviation than the 'fighting against a real person aspect', or their love of WW2 aviation keeps them active, etc., etc., etc.

=garn= is a good example of this in my book (leaving because after a zillion kills a kill is a kill is a kill, and once you've mastered 25 FMs the next 10 new ones aren't as exciting).

=drex= is an example of the love of aviation outweighing the lack of any challenge. 8)

Lazs is right about springtime in my opinion as well.

My small bit of anecdotal evidence: I played WB for a long long time. Quit WB because I was bored.

But whenever I see some guncam footage, sometimes I get 'the bug' to go light up something that's being flown. And I choose AH to do it. I probably start a new account 1/2-3 months and keep it for 2 weeks...until I get 'bored' again. And me being 'bored' has nothing to do with AH...it has everything to do with lots of time spent in the past enjoying a similar product.

New guys, enjoy being new. Lots of guys miss the time when every sortie caused you to sweat a little. 8)

Mike (wulfie)

[wulfie]

One more thing for lazs:

What you need to remember is that some people fly aircraft out of an attraction to that aircraft that started a long long time ago. They don't care about 'fairness' or 'stats' or other things like that.

When I was very very young the only 'grown up' books on aircraft I had were on the Fw 190 and Bf 109.

It sounds really silly, but from day 1 in WB I only flew those aircraft in WB (well, 90% over time) because I thought 'if the FM is fairly realistic, and guys in real life could kick bellybutton in this aircraft, then I should be able to learn to do this'.

A steep learning curve (i.e. low speed knife fighting in a Fw 190A, *or* the F4U, or the P-47, etc., etc., etc.) is the most fun/challenging thing out there for some guys.

Literally, I'd catch myself being able to do something (not everything) better and easier in some other aircraft type but I'd always have this voice in my head (from when I developed my fixation with WW2 aircraft) saying 'yeah, but you aren't in a Fw 190'. And I'd actually feel a little guilty. 8)

In a modern flight sim my Fw 190 would be the F-4 Phantom - lots of attachment to that aircraft (I had alot of 'grown up' friends who flew the F-4 when I was a kid).

In other words, the 'challenge' for me was to do the best I could in any situation versus any aircraft in 1 or 2 types of aircraft. Different strokes for different folks I guess. You like shooting up alot of people in a short period of time on every sortie flying anything available. I can't really knock that. 8)

StSanta - some advice based on some serious experience in terms of hours 'wasted' playing online flight sims - get your 'realism and team player atmosphere' fix by flying in special events and scenarios. Almost every guy with you will be like minded. And a loony bin MA is the perfect place to hone your ACM and gunnery without worrying about score, etc.

It worked for me at least.

Mike (wulfie)

[wulfie]

Pyro,

I seriously doubt that player burnout had *anything* to do with preventing you, HT, and GJ retiring as wealthy men from the ICI venture. 8)

You guys are smart at AH. I see you haven't found the need to go out and hire a 'president'. (salute)

Sincerely - better luck this time around.

Mike (wulfie)

[lazs]

wulfie.. I agree.. some people fly a certain type of aircraft out of love of that ac.   Got no problem with that but... If they fly only that ac and steep themselves into the pomp and rut of that ac and related "historical" aspects then everything about the sim will be tainted for them if it doesn't work out well for their ac.  think about it... if you fly only LW planes and give yourself a LW title and join a LW squad.... How are you gonna be happy in a mixed arena?   Everything that takes away from your "histortic advantage" will gall.  All your effort to give yourself airs will be ignored by the community and you can't get the respect that you are sure you "deserve".  
I have dozens of books on WWII aviation  I enjoy them thoroughly... I even know how it all turned out..  I have no interest in pale imitations or in blasphemy.   Historical planesets are the very smallest part of simulating WWII air combat IMO and if you lack the knowledge or imagination to see that then you will allways be unhappy. I would rather just pretend that In 1940-45 everyone (3 countries) had access to everyone elses planes and now we get to find out how they woulda done against each other.

mandoble... again.. you want to force people to fly the way you want.   I'm not sure that is such a good idea.

stsanta.. you take yourself too seriously... you ain't that deep.   Agendas shine through.  skill/patience  I disagree with you that they are interchangeable words.  B&Z T&B... that's not all there is too it but... if I can choose between doing something most of time or preparing to do something.... I will pick doing something.   I have seen "historical" arenas and they degenerate into only a few tactics and even less ACM.  To be able to call myself uberfhurer or general is not worth it to me.   I'm glad you are enjoying the game and I do notice that you take a lot of the pomp with a healthy grain of salt.   I would however, be interested in your ideas as to why LW guys allways leave a sim that doesn't have "historical" flavor.
lazs

[hblair]

 

Originally posted by wulfie:
New guys, enjoy being new. Lots of guys miss the time when every sortie caused you to sweat a little. 8)

Mike (wulfie)

Amen.

[SeaWulfe]

Or when every kill was an amazing feat....
-SW

[AKDejaVu]

 

If they fly only that ac and steep themselves into the pomp and rut of that ac and related "historical" aspects then everything about the sim will be tainted for them if it doesn't work out well for their ac. think about it... if you fly only LW planes and give yourself a LW title and join a LW squad.... How are you gonna be happy in a mixed arena? Everything that takes away from your "histortic advantage" will gall. All your effort to give yourself airs will be ignored by the community and you can't get the respect that you are sure you "deserve".

Very well said Lazs.

AKDejaVu

[Westy MOL]

 Yes. Very well said and the same literally goes for those who think they're an Allied re-incarnation too. Mosty of those players are over in WB's however.

  -Westy

[Dingy]

Its summer, get yer pasty whitefaced bellybutton out from in front of the computer and enjoy the weather!!  

Or stay in front of the computer with your brand spanking new force feedback wheel playing Nascar 4, working on setups and practicing with your teammates for the league races every Wednesday nite like I do   LOL!!

-Ding
aka SR_Fritz
Spectre Racing

[StSanta]

If they fly only that ac and steep themselves into the pomp and rut of that ac and related "historical" aspects then      everything about the sim will be tainted for them if it doesn't work out well for their ac.

It's not about what works out for our aircraft. It's about finding something that can help create an illusion of WWII. That's why I fly AH, and that's why I fly in a German squad. I care less about allies planes being superior, as long as I can have my little illusion.

think about it... if you fly
only LW planes and give yourself a LW title and join a LW squad.... How are you gonna be happy in a mixed arena?  Everything that takes away from your "histortic advantage" will gall. All your effort to give yourself airs will be ignored by the community and you can't get the respect that you are sure you "deserve".

Again, I'm talking about the illusion. And I don't care for "historic advantage" whatever that means, nor do I care for "community respect". I care for the illusion.

AH had great potential to fulfill my needs. but as it is, it has grown more and more into a big Quake in the sky all vs all. Foor people like you lazs, that is perfect. For people like me, Kirin, Hazed, Habicht and others, it is less than perfect. I don't berate you for having a different taste than me; what I do hate is your amateur psychology where you falsely attribute hidden agendas to me. It's diddlying rude.
                     
I have dozens of books on WWII aviation I enjoy them thoroughly... I even know how it all turned out.. I have no interest in pale imitations or in blasphemy. Historical planesets are the very smallest part of simulating WWII air combat IMO and if you lack the knowledge or imagination to see that then you will allways be unhappy. I would
rather just pretend that In 1940-45 everyone (3 countries) had access to everyone elses planes and now we get to find out how they woulda done against each other.

That's a "what if" scenario. Taken a bit more to the extreme, what if the Germans had developed a fighter like the MiG 15? Or what if you took the American engines and put into the 190s?

One way of limiting in scope (and therefore making more possible to implement) a WWII sim is to 'stick to the facts*. If you don't, it ain't a WWII sim. It's a pseudo WWII sim.

stsanta.. you take yourself too seriously... you ain't that deep. Agendas shine through.

LOL, you do not know me very well at all  . The only person I take less seriously than anyone else is myself. And that's quite an achievement  .

What are my agendas? You seem to know all the stuff in my head. Your agendas it seems it to have Ah turn into what it is now, a what if non historic Quake using WWII planes. My agenda, if you wish to call it that, is to push for more history into something thatt supposedly is about WWII. Not just related to.

skill/patience I disagree with  you that they are interchangeable words.

Now you're PISSING ME OFF. When did I say this? Stop putting words in my mouth.

... arenas and they degenerate into only a few tactics and even less ACM.

Dude you simply do not know the LW planes like me if you think that only a few moves can be done in them. I'd say a plane like the 109 can do MORE than a point and click Spit. And encourage you to apply more advanced ACM, combined with more brain matter involved. have you ever seen one of nath's films? I have one where we do a 1v1 in 109's; if you don't call that ACM and knife fighting, I don't know what is, because we go through every trick in the book.

I would however, be interested in your ideas as to why LW guys allways leave a sim
that doesn't have "historical" flavor.

And I told you.
 

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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Hangtime]

Wow. A real change... interesting reading here. <S!>

One thing that got my ears perked up...

   

I'd say a plane like the 109 can do MORE than a point and click Spit. And encourage you to apply more advanced ACM, combined with more brain matter involved.

[/b]

Amen to that Reverend Santa!

It is true that now more than ever, getting into a fight in the MA is a lot easier to do than getting out of it alive. You can use every ACM page in Shaws, win your fight and be buried 3 seconds later... but that's the MA. It's my opinion that the guys who color the gettin killed part with brighter colors than the "gawd that was a great fight" part eventually walk away from the sim feeling dissatisfied.

I still (and suspect I always will) hugely enjoy the fight[/i], disregard the death, and continue to work for those bright shiny little moments of ACM perfection when you pull the the angles just right, beat the notorious badguy to the corner and turn him into confetti... *BOOM* "..forgive me; but I do love it so..."

Just another day in the MA... where losing is just part of winning.

Hang

[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 06-02-2001).]

[Beegerite]

Here is a reply I posted in another thread which I believe is appropos

OK guys, allow me to play therapist! I hear dissatisfaction. However, there is a cure. Find a way to play the game the way "you" feel it should be played with what we have right now and your game will only improve as different planes, terrains etc. are added in the future.
I believe I read the word "immersion" in 3 posts, ok maybe 2 and 1 implied. Immersion to me means that when I start playing I'm no longer a middle aged mid-level manager in 21st century central Pa. I'm 21 years old, first time away from home and in command of the pride of the 8th Air Force a B-17 Flying Fortress. I'm sitting in a smoke filled room waiting for the CO to enter and announce the mission but the smoke doesn't bother me cause I'm as ignorant as dung about any cancer causing elements in it. Instead I suck on my Camel with abandon and wonder what today's mission will bring. TENHUT!!! The CO enters, yanks back the courtain and a hush comes over the quonset hut. Jumping Jehosephat!!! Bish HQ "AND" all the support facilities near it. The city, munitions factories, training facilities etc. etc. All in one mission!!! Plot lines are all over the map. Bomber streams from 3 bases, fighter escorts from 3 more. One big rendevouz point with altitudes and headings all over the map. Boy, if we pull this off the Evil Bish are going to be reduced to a crying whimpering mass.
This guys is IMMERSION and believe it or not it's available and possible right now. What keeps us from doing it is the desire of guys like me to "force" guys who only want to come in here for 45 minutes, shoot things up a bit and then go on to something else. What a guy like me has got to do is to find enough other nuts that think alike, get together and we'll all be happy campers.

I don't care who's leaving and why they're leaving.  I only care about me and others that think as I do enjoying ourselves.

Beeg