Event in Fallujah

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by babek-

The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war.

Nah, that might disrupt the oil supplies.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Nilsen10
so Yeager.. would you use gass....like saddam did?

Naah, better to use bulldozers like the Israelis do.

[babek-]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Nah, that might disrupt the oil supplies.

Why ? There would be civil war units controlling the oil teritories. And they would sell them for peanuts if they get weapons to kill other iraquis.

So - at least no foreign soldier has to die in this hell.

Yesterday also 5 US soldiers died after an attack of some iraquis.

So why should any foreign soldier die in Iraq ?

Because of democracy ?
They are not able to live in democracy. Iraq is turning from a secret civil war to a more and more open warfare.

So again my question: Why not allowing them to kill each other instead of risking the life of foreign soldiers who have no chance to win because this is a guerrilla war?

[Nilsen]

babek-

he was beeing sarcastic.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by LAWCobra
I have said it all along these ignorant goat hearders cant handle to society we are trying to build for them.

Duality Wav

Son, all I've ever asked of my Marines is for them to obey my orders as they would the word of God. We are here to help the Vietnamese because inside every gook, there is an American trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son. We've got to try to keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.

 Tronsky

[rogwar]

Originally posted by ravells
Interesting theory Rogwar. I would not be surprised if it was orchestrated for the reasons you have given.

Ravs

Thanks for the comment ravells.

Lotsa comments on here by thread hijackers but I'm really looking for any analysis of this situation in particular, not Iraq overall.

Granted, foreigners, soldiers and/or civilians are being killed almost every day in Iraq. However, it just seems like this was a planned, staged event for the press to create a "Blackhawk down" type of effect in the media.

In fact, I believe the goal by the insurgency of killing foreign soldiers everyday is not just the killing so to speak. The idea is to reduce support in the west, particularly in the USA, for the action in Iraq. Such is believed in the world to have worked many times in the past, i.e. Vietnam, Lebonon, Somalia.

Update: I was just listening to a major US news program and heard this question by the news commentator, "Don't you think that after seeing this many Americans will just want to wash their hands of Iraq?".

Subsequently, "a military analyst (exmilitary) said, "we need to find some of these people from the video and talk to them".

[gofaster]

Interesting business about the four contractors killed were part of an international security firm; ex-Special Forces types doing private training and bodyguarding, much like the group being held by Mugabe who were supposed to be going up north from South Africa to provide security for the mining operations.

[Monk]

On the other hand: Why wasting any soldiers or people or money in Iraq ?

The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war.

My feeling also.

[Red Tail 444]

Rogwar,

I agree with your analysys. However, unlike Somalia, I believe the incident is fueled more by desperation than by anything else. The Somalian gunmen never felt the full pressure of the US military while the rest of Iraq is relatively peaceful and beginning to show signs of economic growth.

It reminded me of the footage in Vietnam where that VC got shot in the head while handcuffed, as well as the Blackhawk incident, or when Col.(?) Higgins died of a heart attack in captivity, then his body later hanged and videoed (I forgot what country that was in).

Whatever their motives, I believe they made a huge tactical error, just like OBL, and are going to get the brunt of the storm very soon. If their intent wass to have additional footage of innocents -children and women-being killed, then they got their wish.

I wouldnt be suprsed if the US and our allies quietly went about and removed as many journalists from fallujah as possible. The sequel aint gonna be for the squeamish.

[Monk]

or when Col.(?) Higgins died of a heart attack in captivity, then his body later hanged and videoed (I forgot what country that was in).

Lebanon.

[SunTracker]

Colonel Higgins went to high school about five miles from me.  Theres a statue with a picture of him at his school (Southern High).

So was he hanged or did he really die of a heart attack?

[ravells]

We don't know whether the present attacks were Al-Q backed, but the idea that the US will not have the stomach for a war if the bodies of their nationals are brutalised has some precedence.  

That said, I think the mood of the local population in the US between having troops in Somalia and in Iraq is entirely different. Until the Black Hawk Down episode, I believe many Americans had no idea there was a military presence there and most probably didn't know where Somalia was. So it is understandable that they didn't give two hoots about operations there and wanted their troops back.

Iraq is a different case. America has made a promise that it will leave Iraq a democratic nation. That was the 'moral mandate' it took upon itself by invading Iraq in the first place.  This is why:

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The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war.
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would be the biggest PR disaster the Americans would ever have if they pulled out of Iraq without leaving some semblance of order there.

It will be interesting to hear what the average American on the street is saying about the 'brutalised bodies' incident. My gut reaction is that the incident is not going to change many minds, and the people who believe that America has an obligation to stay there until a proper transition of power can be effected to the Iraqis, will continue to so believe.  My perception is that the US are not about to back track out of Iraq without finishing the job although they are trying to be sensitive to the invariable fact that the longer a 'liberator' stays in a foreign land, the more likely he will be seen as an 'oppressor' by the locals.  I am sure this is why the US has given a clear date on which they will leave.

Ravs.

[Westy]

"Q: Why wasting any soldiers or people or money in Iraq ?

"A1: The best would be to leave the Iraq and watch how they kill each other in a civil war."

 "A2:My feeling also."


  Sheesh. None of the suggestions I've seen have measured up to the capabilities of the old Bathe party.  Seems Saddam and gang were doing a good job after all (of killing Iraqi's) and the US/UK didn't need to invade Iraq to liberate a repressed, civilized people after all.

[Nilsen]

better shias etc then americans westy?

[Westy]

"better shias etc then americans westy?"

Absolutely.